Groups Seek to Remove God from Inaugural Pledge
Wednesday December 31, 2008
Oh, here's an interesting one from CNN. In a lawsuit filed on Tuesday, several atheist and religious freedom advocacy groups are requesting that the phrase, "So help me God" be removed from President Elect Barack Obama's inaugural oath. The suit was filed by the American Humanist Association, the Freedom from Religion Foundation, and other organizations.
The lawsuit claims, "There can be no purpose for placing 'so help me God' in an oath or sponsoring prayers to God, other than promoting the particular point of view that God exists."
Interesting point, and I can certainly see how that might make some people feel left out, particularly if they're an atheist or a non-Christian. But here's the way I look at it -- and I'll probably see some poo-flinging for this. If someone WANTS to swear before their god, why shouldn't they be allowed to do so? Barack Obama has stated that he's a Christian. If he, as a Christian, wants to swear an oath before his god, does his right to do so as an individual get trumped by the fact that the government can't endorse one religion over another?
Even spokesperson Michael Newdow (who has filed several religious-based lawsuits in the past) says he didn't name the President Elect as a defendant in the suit because Obama "possesses rights as an individual that allow him to express religious beliefs." Newdow also said, "If he chooses to ask for God's help, I'm not going to challenge him."
Certainly, if someone chooses not to swear an oath before their god, then they shouldn't be expected to. But what if you wanted to pledge to your god -- Odin, perhaps, or Brighid, or maybe Anubis -- and you weren't allowed to? This is a tricky one, because while it's an official government ceremony, and Obama is certainly an elected official, he also has rights as an individual.
The lawsuit claims, "There can be no purpose for placing 'so help me God' in an oath or sponsoring prayers to God, other than promoting the particular point of view that God exists."
Interesting point, and I can certainly see how that might make some people feel left out, particularly if they're an atheist or a non-Christian. But here's the way I look at it -- and I'll probably see some poo-flinging for this. If someone WANTS to swear before their god, why shouldn't they be allowed to do so? Barack Obama has stated that he's a Christian. If he, as a Christian, wants to swear an oath before his god, does his right to do so as an individual get trumped by the fact that the government can't endorse one religion over another?
Even spokesperson Michael Newdow (who has filed several religious-based lawsuits in the past) says he didn't name the President Elect as a defendant in the suit because Obama "possesses rights as an individual that allow him to express religious beliefs." Newdow also said, "If he chooses to ask for God's help, I'm not going to challenge him."
Certainly, if someone chooses not to swear an oath before their god, then they shouldn't be expected to. But what if you wanted to pledge to your god -- Odin, perhaps, or Brighid, or maybe Anubis -- and you weren't allowed to? This is a tricky one, because while it's an official government ceremony, and Obama is certainly an elected official, he also has rights as an individual.
Comments
I agree with this post – if an adult wants to swear allegiance to god, they should certainly be able to. What I have always had a problem with is the Pledge of Allegiance. Not only are we expecting children to pledge their allegiance to a country they know next to nothing about, but they are also required to pledge it under god. I know you can sit it out, but there is no good reason to force anyone to feel left out just because they refuse (or their parents refuse) to align themselves with a god they don’t believe in. IMHO, it is one of the worst travesties of the separation of church and state.
I also agree that if a person chooses to swear an oath of office, marriage, or other commitment by their god(s), goddess(es), or even on a poptart then more power to them. If the lawsuit is to simply require that a person NOT be forced to swear to something they don’t believe in I agree with that. What good is an oath made to a fiction?? And I completely agree with the previous poster about the pledge of allegiance. Children are forced to say it by rote with no understanding of what the words mean, what any god is all about, what the country stands for, and no possible comprehension of swearing an oath! This is a travesty! Dissenters should not have to be forced to press their case. Children should NOT be brainwashed in this manner!!! In 7th grade I said – liberty and justice for most, 8th I said – liberty and justice for some and 9th grade I stopped saying it though I did stand out of respect for the unrealized ideals.
Obama’s going to need as much help as he can get over the next four(eight?) years. If the Christian god is the one he asks for divine help when he needs it, then by all means, he should ask for that help in upholding his oath!
In the same way, I would say “so help me the gods”, and I would probably expect an atheist not to include that clause at all.
As for the Pledge of Allegiance, I agree that the words “under God” don’t belong there. For those two words, I do what I do whenever the group I’m in says prayers to the Christian god: I remain silent.
Woohoo, I love me some Pop-tarts.
I, like the others, agree Obama has the right to decide this, just like he had the right to choose Rick Warren for the commencement. It’s his party and he’ll pray if he wants to.
I think it was high until I realized that in the pledge of allegiance, the one phrase was “for which it stands” and not “for witch’s stand.” I know that didn’t make sense, but it’s what I heard and no one corrected me. Just shows why kids shouldn’t be expected to say it at school. I’m sure my school wasn’t the only one that never explained the pledge and it’s meaning.
Happy New Year!
The inauguration is a social event and the swearing-in a symbolic event. In no way does it violate the law that says government cannot establish a religion. It does not force anyone to observe a religion either. It’s like going to a wedding for a friend who is of a different religion.. you are merely a spectator, you didn’t have to convert!
I guess he should have been sworn in on the Koran, since he’s a Muslim… and they likely would not have minded that eh? Or the foot washing sinks that are provided at taxpayers expense in Michigan so they can observe their reglious rituals during the day? Why not install the stations of the cross for the Catholics?
I tell you since this guy has been elected, ALL THE NUTS HAVE FALLEN OUT OF THE TREES.
Not to day the Obama is not a Christian, I am not saying that – but what if he were not one and he was standing up there taking his oath and says “I Swear to God”. What if he is swearing to his Higher Power, his God of choice. We have no idea what he is thinking. We all have our beliefs or dis-beliefs, by having this law suit aren’t they doing what they feel is being done to them, forcing their non belief on people who believe in a Christian God. I honor my Goddess and God no matter what. I live in a home were before every meal a prayer is said to God, and I know they are not praying to my Higher Source, but I give thanks to the Goddess and God. When I was in school when we had to say the pledge I would say “under Goddess”. You cannot take away an indivduals right to believe to have faith. I know I ramble but I hope you get what I am trying to say
I agree with Mia in almost everything and most of the others. I can understand the people filing this suite, but I must say Patti, you make a very good point. Enough said.
Happy New Year to all of you
It’s Obama’s party. If he wants to say “so help me, God” that’s his right.
as for the pledge. ‘under god’ was added during the McCarthy era so that the pledge sounded more American. I never liked the pledge anyway. But then, I’ve always been a closet rebel.
Yes, I’d have to agree that all the nuts have fallen out of the trees, but not SINCE Obama has been elected. That started DURING the electoral campaigns. All the ignorant started showing their colors too. It amazes me how many people still think Obama is muslim when he has stated publicly that he is Christian. Not to mention the scandal at the beginning of his campaign when his CHRISTIAN preacher made some stupid comments for which his name was splattered across the media. Come on people, get your heads out of the clouds.
I do not understand what the big deal is. All of us (except athiests), believe in some form of higher being, whether we call this being God/Goddess, Allah, Christ, Budda, or whatever. We are all on different paths, hopefully heading for the same destination. When I listen to the Pledge or a prayer at a funeral or whatever, when the word “God” is used, I visualize my own supreme being. We all all in this together, I am sure we can find more important topics to worry about than this. Lets solve world hunger, or create peace or cure disease. Lets help make the human race better than argue over a word!
He should have the right to swear before his god. So should anyone. But he should not be forced to swear, and we who follow different gods should not be forced to endure hearing it.
I am kinda torn on this issue, Obama does have a right to be sworn in via the higher power he believes in. I would prefer he put his hands on the constitution since that is what he is supposed to be upholding, not a religous doctrine.
And if all faiths and non-faiths had an equal chance to run for office that would make me feel better about who he supports religiously. But we all know that a non-christian is not going to get elected.
Actually, “so help me god” isn’t in the Presidentail Oath. The Oath reads: “I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States.”
Presidents are free to add the God part after, and all of them have. So… what the hell are they suing?
I would rather see them put energy in fighting religious war and terror politics – rather than feeble ‘wording’ and isolated lawsuites here and there. The Humanists are missing the ball. I would particularly like to see them expose christians as the main terrorist and war mongers that they are. The reason there will never be peace in the mid east, despite their phoney peace making theatrics.
Ok, first and foremost, Obama has the right to ask for the guidance by any devine or “poptart” that he finds worthy.
As for the Pledge is concerned, for all of you who attended a school that did not explain the words to you, I am truly sorry! Obviously the older I have gotten, the more clarity I understand the words in. Under God doesn’t necessarily have to mean the Christian God. In my opinion, The Pledge isn’t a “religious” prayer and really shouldn’t be preceived as such. We say it to honor those who died to give us the freedom that so many take for granted. I hold my Pagan beliefs close to my heart but I am also a proud American!
As far as all that other crip-crap controversy in the world…can’t everyone just respect the beliefs and feelings of others and live in peace and harmony? (LOL, hey a girl could wish!)
Straight up, the “god” referred to in the pledge of allegiance is the christian god. Do the research; find out who put that phrase in there.
No one should be “required” to make a religious statement, nor should our tax dollars be used to promote any religion.
Not long ago, I was asked to give some testimony at a trial. When I was sworn in, they presented me with a bible, asked me to put my hand on it,and to repeat, at one point, “so help me god.”
Even though I don’t believe in the christian religion, I did as they asked me, because I didn’t want the jury to be prejudiced against me.
What a joke. I told a lie during the swearing-in ritual.
How many true-blue christians swore on the bible and then lied anyway?
What happened to free speech? He’s being sworn in as the President of the United States. He should be able to say whatever he wants to.
One thing that everyone should get a handle on and accept that this IS a Christian nation, founded on Christian principals and structured based on Biblical principles. The division of three branches, etc are Biblical principles.
If you have a problem with this or “Under God” in our allegiance, fine. Move to a different country then. This is one nation under God for a reason.
People usually note the division of church and state. DO YOUR HOMEWORK! The intend of separation of church and state is to prevent the state from interfering with the church in the ways that the “state” was doing in England where our forefathers came from. It WAS NOT intended the other way around.
You don’t like Christian beliefs or principals? Fine. Move so you don’t have to deal with them.
Actually, Jake, the “under God” part was added to the allegiance during the McCarthy era to show that Americans weren’t ‘Godless Communists.’ Thomas Jefferson himself coined the term ‘wall of separation of church and state’ in his letter to the Danbury Baptists. I find Jefferson’s choice of metaphor diametrically opposed to your assertion, since a wall does, indeed, work both ways! In his autobiography, he explicitly states that the name of Jesus Christ was left out of the Virginia Act for Religious Freedom- which he introduced to the legislature- in order to indicate that the act was meant to protect all members of all religions, and even non-believers, not just Christians of various sects.
The Treaty of Tripoli, first signed in 1796 by George Washington and ratified by John Adams in 1797, includes an article explicitly stating that the government of the United States of America was not, in any sense, founded on Christian doctrine. This is irrefutable proof that the Founding Fathers did not consider the United States to be a Christian nation, especially considering that ratified treaties are de facto laws.
Besides, why should I have to leave the land I was born in just because I want my beliefs to be protected, too?
Every time you Americans act against God, something really bad happens, and then you cry out to Him (you too atheists). You re all gluttons for punishment.
One of the greatest gifts that god gave to man was free will. Use it wisely.