Here's an interesting post from the Wild Hunt blog, by guest Literata Hurley. She's a Wiccan priestess who lives in Virginia, and says, "The Arlington County Court refused to grant me the right to perform marriages in Virginia, apparently on the grounds that my "congregation" does not own a building."
Hurley says she presented her certificate of ordination and documentation of her order's 501c3 status, but the Clerk of Court, Paul Ferguson, said he couldn't approve her for clergy status. Virginia requires clergy members to register with a circuit court in order to be able to perform valid marriages, and the minister must present proof of ordination and "of his being in regular communion" with the organization that ordained him.
Why is this a problem? Well, because in addition to being unable to solemnize marriages without clergy status, there's some concern about what protections are guaranteed to someone who does other clergy-type things. If you're not recognized by the state as licensed clergy, do confidentiality laws apply to you?
Hurley makes some good points in her blog post. She says, "I think it's not unreasonable that I am concerned about what kind of documentation will satisfy the court. I serve multiple groups, one of which meets in a designated location, but since it is an open circle, the people who attend are mostly not members of my ordaining organization. If I provide documentation of this group meeting in a specific location, will the court then ask how many people attend, and how often we meet? What will they require to conclude that I am "really" a High Priestess in a "real" religion?"
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Hurley says she presented her certificate of ordination and documentation of her order's 501c3 status, but the Clerk of Court, Paul Ferguson, said he couldn't approve her for clergy status. Virginia requires clergy members to register with a circuit court in order to be able to perform valid marriages, and the minister must present proof of ordination and "of his being in regular communion" with the organization that ordained him.
Why is this a problem? Well, because in addition to being unable to solemnize marriages without clergy status, there's some concern about what protections are guaranteed to someone who does other clergy-type things. If you're not recognized by the state as licensed clergy, do confidentiality laws apply to you?
Hurley makes some good points in her blog post. She says, "I think it's not unreasonable that I am concerned about what kind of documentation will satisfy the court. I serve multiple groups, one of which meets in a designated location, but since it is an open circle, the people who attend are mostly not members of my ordaining organization. If I provide documentation of this group meeting in a specific location, will the court then ask how many people attend, and how often we meet? What will they require to conclude that I am "really" a High Priestess in a "real" religion?"
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Being a Pagan who grew up in the ultra conservative Christian communities throughout the state of Virginia, I can say that I am not surprised to hear this. I am upset to hear that such a thing has happened, but unfortunately not surprised. I wish her the best.
This is unfortunate but not surprising. I’m sure if she can afford to appeal it high enough, she can get it overturned. Hopefully some lawyer will be willing to take the case pro bono.
This issue actually extends far beyond performing weddings. Being able to minister to people in hospitals or hospice, even if they request it, could be in jeopardy. Without a clergy designation, offering spiritual counsel could easily be called practicing psychology/ psychiatry without a license. Efforts at fundraising could be called fraud. Community organizing could be hampered and denigrated. This can impact everything a person could do as clergy. This is a lawsuit waiting to happen. Government should have no authority to determine what constitutes legitimate clergy. This should be left to the respective faiths. Americans United or the ACLU might be able to help.
This probably isn’t exactly what it seems like; Arlington and its neighbor to the east, Alexandria, are the “bluest” constituencies in all of Virginia; they are in reality 100% as liberal as Virginia law allows.
Far be it from me to defend the judicial stupidity that nonetheless abounds here in Virginia, but I recently had a conversation with a city councilman from Alexandria, and it turns out there is a non-religious background to this situation (not that it makes it okay, mind you…).
There seems to be a problem with “pastors” from outside of Northern Virginia (DC and Maryland particularly) that abuse their 501c3 status in order to flip real estate tax-free. They buy a blighted property in a gentrifying area, have one “field trip” sort of worship service there with their actual congregation driving down for the occasion, and then proceed to flip the property without paying the usual taxes. Often, instead of making any actual improvements to existing structures, they merely sit on the property until it’s valuable on its own, and *then* sell it. This results in blighted properties remaining untouchable for rejuvenation until long after the rest of the neighborhood has been greened.
The city governments are trying to crack down on this behavior, and unfortunately, this priestess is caught in the middle.
In Richmond, Virginia someone tried to register as a pagan clergy and was denied because she would not call herself a minister or pastor. And tried to explain to the court that she was a priestess, and not a pastor. That was the only thing keeping her from being registered at the court house.
It truelly doesn’t matter what them there pilgrims think we stand in the universe as free spirits who is it that says you need follow some stupid law set forth by some infantile race of idiot sheep anyway.
we stand in the essence of the great creator not to be dictated by the foolish follys of man.
This is EXACTLY why hubby and I never filed w/ the court here. We are ordained “legally” enough to get credentials to visit hospitals as clergy in NC but as Virginia to recognize that we are? Doubt it.
this is unfortunately my state and I’m not at all surprised. I’d suggest that she get an empty plot of land and have a gazebo or something put on it, but it’s still ridiculous that she should have to spend money to legally be what she actually is. Unless her coven(s?) want to all chip in to help with that.
I really do hate my state sometimes, I often have to look forward to the future every day just to keep from going crazy.
Why not use her home address. Did they ask for the address of her church? Do they rent space inside during inclimate weather? I’ve said it before, if your phone doesn’t have a recording ap, get one. Then go back to the court house and re-apply. If the clerk comes back and says it is being denied, pull out the phone, tell them you have a dreadful memory and you’d like to record what requirements she needs to comply, unless they have a check list.
Another option is to bring a witness. If the person has law knowledge all the better. A local clergy who is friendly to her would help a bit. Especially if they will be willing to allow her to use their address.
One of the best parts of living in Utah is that the Mormons have laws that make it easy for them to put in new Bishops without having to registrar each time. This means that for all the other religions, including Wicca, we don’t have to prove a thing nor registrar. All anyone has to do is get a letter of call from your group, which is easily found online.
I would also like to say – will they start asking for members names and phone numbers, addresses etc? This could lead to a witch hunt if they have any pertinent information. I don’t understand the court clerk’s reasoning, but I’m sure he’s blocking it because of HIS religious beliefs, but threw in the excuse of having a building. I do suggest to get a copy of the regulations he’s enforcing, see if they actually exist.
One could remind him that John Wesley was a traveling preacher, and was run out of a town and he was riding backwards on his horse preaching from the bible the whole way. Now, there’s a Wesley United Methodist College and hospital (in Dallas).
Virginia
The procedure in Virginia is less well defined. According to the official in Arlington County, you bring (in person) your “certificate of ordination”, a photo ID, and $16 the Clerk’s office of any Circuit Court. Then the clerk will ask you “some questions” about things like whether or not you have a congregation in Virginia, how many members, and whether your group is recognized as a religious group by the IRS. Then either the clerk will register you or buck the problem up to a judge. Nonresidents are eligible.
VA-resident non-clergy can sign up for a one-time permit to celebrate a wedding. Apply in person at the Clerk’s office of any Circuit Court.
These are the requirements…nothing about having an actual address…and the clerk can either do it or get a judge involved.
It sure sounds like the law itself was originally focused on misbehaving/creepy Christian former or detached pastors, people who claimed to be clergy but their denomination hadn’t heard from them for years. The legal review linked to from the site gives an example of exactly what the problem probably is (that clerk uses some wierd definition of what constitutes ‘in communion’) . While it may be that that clerk routinely denies all applications from pagans, the situation seems to be murkier in regards to the law.
Stay the course, we will win in the end. )o(
I had the same problem in Nevada. I sis all the paper work, jumped through all the hoops but was denied because we didn’t have a “physical” place to meet.
Peter Windshadow
Priest Coven of the canyon and the river
This is just wrong they would do it for any other religions
Interesting. It may vary from locale to locale. We were married/handfasted by a Wiccan Priest in Norfolk, VA in 1994.
Retired ministers, who no longer have churches, are still allowed to perform marriages and funerals. They are even “paid” to do so, by a good will donation. According to this judge’s ruling, they should be barred from doing so.
I am not Wiccan, I was raised a Catholic and have just recently figured out that I was brainwashed since the age of 7 to believe every other religion was bad. I bought a book on Wicca, after about 40 years of being afraid of even reading anything on Paganism and was so surprised to find a lot of the same things my religion uses were first used in Paganism, The Chalice, candles, robes, incence,oils and the list goes on. I have to wonder whose idea it was to use the same things that Pagans used to incorporate into this so called new religion. It seems to me that the use of these things was outright stealing, something my religion is against! My advice to you is use the media, the rag sheets get a lot of responce as well as t.v., don’t use the local channels, go outside the box, connect with a talk show, get it out there! People can’t understand whats going on unless its there for them to view, Look at how many years it took me to make the decision to find out for myself! I’m very happy I did! I see absolutely nothing wrong with Wicca, at least your religion is trying to take care of the earth that my God, your God by whatever name we may call Him gave us to care for, more power to y
ou.
This is an all too common problem. For many years I tried in vain to get certified in Clark County Nevada (in case your not familiar that would be Las Vegas, home of the quickie wedding and so called easiest marriage laws in the country). I was also told that I needed to have a congregation with an actual brick and mortar building. We tried to fight it but the city has the right to deny you the ability to sue them by dismissing the case as having no merit.
We found a way around it. There is a law here that allows a minister associated with “ANY” congregation in the state to be recognized so we found ourselves a sympathetic congregation and they agreed to sign our paperwork. I have a congregation in Las Vegas of about 15-20 people whom I am the Spiritual leader for and even these few should have proper representation.
So if you want to get married in Las Vegas and you want a traditional handfasting with a licensed, legal practicing High Priestess we are here and ready to help you out anywhere in the state. Yes we are helping others in this state become legalized for solemnization of wedding vows.
Just keep trying and if at first you don’t succeed use their laws against them.
This is when you contact the ACLU so they can step in and take your case on the basis of religious discrimination. Their tacking the situation in one county should set as precedent for the state, and for other states by addressing the situation and winning.
We got help with hour local school district years ago in Texas when my teenage daughter was told that she could not wear a pentagram on school property. They of course had problems with crosses; there was as it happened a quiet discrimination against Jews and the wearing of the Star of David.
Find the number for your local ACLU office and explain the problem. They can also help clarify just what the regulations DO say.
As others have said, this is unfortunate. But I kinda understand the need to ‘validate’ clergy somehow. Though I have no idea what the best way would be. My hometown went through a horrible ordeal when an ordained man came into town and hid behind his title and the “Word of God” to get away with serious crimes. I’m talking kidnapping, breaking and entering, drug trafficking, assault with a firearm and knife (one knife was actually found in the ditch a mile from my house), possibly prostitution, and it ended with a two-year-old girl being killed with a baseball bat. For a long time, the law couldn’t touch him more than a fine or maybe a couple days in jail. I’m happy to report that man is in the State Penitentiary. And his own lawyer, when asked what his chances were of getting an appeal, told him “About the same as a snow ball’s chance in hell.” So… maybe a Psychiatric evaluation before being ordained? I dunno. It’s sad.