Paganism and Minors

No one had to *sign off* on me attending (born-again Christian) church as a young teen back in the day. I frequently got rides home, alone, with adult men. Everyone trusted them. “Oh, they’re deacons in the church.” There may have been some kind of self-righteous superiority, in people thinking they were doing something for me that my parents should have been doing. My parents were happy that I was doing what I wanted and stayed off drugs.

The underlying problem here, beyond the obvious problems with “personal instruction,” is the perception even we can’t rid ourselves of that there is something forbidden, naughty, slightly evil, *occult* about what we practice. It would be different of course if we had pretty buildings with permits and mortgages and members tithing every week. It lends such legitimacy to the endeavor. It must be OK, versus us po’ pagans who have to meet in our homes or the local park.

We should all know by now that pervs and pedos exist openly in the Christian church. In the church I went to (Baptist, btw) we had one known incident when the youth minister fondled a girl. Coming back from revival camp. On a bus with 45 other people on it. Two rows back from where I was sitting. He got kicked to the curb obviously; resigned a few hours after we got back home. People were shocked, they prayed for him (a few even bothered to pray for the victim, a teenage girl from a troubled home). But no one questioned the validity of our beliefs, our church, our leadership … and look how long it’s taken for these things to happen in the Catholic Church.

Anyway, I do support us taking the high road, but I wish there could be a bit more acceptance and less defensiveness and trust. I know, I’m dreaming.

While I can understand the whole legal reasons behind it I find it kind of sad that interested kids aren’t taught more. I just turned 18 myself and since no one would touch me with a yen foot pole before even with all my book reading I’m having a hard time finding a coven or even a mentor. And I know from experience that Christians would happily take a kid, wheather their parents knew or not. And I’m definitely not saying we should be like them, but when I found Wicca at 12 I knew it was right, and still do six years later, but I was so sad that no one seemed to welcome me just because of my age.

The laws about proselytizing to a minor are in place for the protection of the children as well as the adults. These laws are the similar to the ones in place where an under aged child can not be interviewed by the police without his parents permission. Here in Utah the LDS missionaries are not allowed to talk to or teach children without the direct consent of their parents or guardians. In our Coven we have taught and trained several teens, only after their parents signed a consent form.

Bernadene, I’m with you! We have allowed minors to come to open rituals WITH parental permission, and I prefer that the parents come and meet with me beforehand. I want them to know who I am and have a chance to talk to me before they trust their child to anything I’m leading. If the minor tells me that their parents will never agree to that, then I tell them that, as long as they are living in their parents’ home and dependent on their parents, they have to abide by their parents’ rules. It’s sad that we have to do this when, as others have mentioned, most parents will let their kids go ANYWHERE with a traditional “religious leader”, but there it is. . . .

It’s not that no one was willing to accept you, Anna, when you were a minor. Patti’s raised some very good points above with what could happen when parents become aware of a relationship between an adult and their child that they were not aware of, and it’s to teach that child about a religion they may not understand or approve of. All those parents have to do is whisper “molestation?” and it’s going to be jumped upon, ruining not only the adult Pagan’s life, but how damaging would it be to that youth ? Nothing inappropriate has to happen for it to be suggested and then blown out of proportion.

Most churches with any credibility aren’t happy to take on the instruction of a child without their parents being aware of what’s taking place and fully consenting to it. Any church that will do should be avoided, because Catholic or not, those are the ones who are probably going to abuse your kids.

And there are other reasons that elders in the faith aren’t always so keen to take on such young students. How many of us have watched teenage girls go through the “Wichtcraft Fad”, where they’re witch queens for about two weeks and then never come back? We’re all fickle about some things as teens, and for some people it’s religion. You have to try on a lot of hats until you find the one that’s just right for you.

Give older Pagans a little bit of credit. Most of them followed the same path as you, without as many resources. They want to be sure, when they take on a student, that they’re going to be serious and they don’t want to put their reputations and freedom at risk. Consider it as being for your own protection, as well. At 18, you’re considerably less influential and far more discriminating than you were at 12. You’re going to be able to tell when someone’s trying to sell you snake oil, and you’re going to be more likely to stand up for yourself and not be bullied into doing things you’re uncomfortable with.

Don’t forget, with every whisper of “molestation”, depending on where you live, there is probably at least one person in the area with more firepower than sense, to whom accusation *is* guilt, evidence is irrelevant, and rule of law is an inconvenience, at best…

Hi girls…as a pagan parent of a pagan teenager I understand the need for her to be nurtured at a tender age. But, I was already apart of a coven and I as her parent urged it.
I feel the need to address the differences between pagan and Christian parents and the ways of thinking… If your parents (who control every part of your legal life) are Christian they (incorrectly in most cases) view pagans as black magic witches. (this is not an absolute by any means)
When the kids of these parents become interested in pegan religions they(the parents) feel the kids are being rebellious and often can not see the difference between the black magic and a natural and earthly based culture. As a result if they were to find that an adult has taken their child and tought them they will often(if aposed to the idea) blame the adult for influencing the minor…this can lead to legal charges.
Because, we live in a Christian dominated culture it is more accepted and is less likely to end in legal charges, when a Christian sect does this very same thing.
Though as a pagan mother I can tell you that ‘I’ would taken issue with it were a Christian to take it upon themselves to take charge of my daughters spirituality (without my knowing of it) and I would have 100% filed statutory charges.
Not to say that she is(was) not allowed to have her own identity and make her own spiritual choices…but as her guardian both legally and spiritually I have the responsibility to ensure that she understands every aspect of that chosen path, this means I need be aware of it and apart of it.
Also, keep in mind that the pagan parent is (typically) more open minded and accepting then the Christian parent is.
As a side note: My daughter is now 18 and HAS chosen a path (though not Christian) very different from my own… And I can happily say that she has made sound decisions about her spiritually (the is right for her) and has learned that it is not to be taken lightly. I take credit for that.

As a wiccan and a witch i wish there was more tolerance and understanding of our faith, we still classed alot as evil but christianity is so far on the otherside of the scale… when my daughter was 9yrs old she had a sleep over at friends for her birthday and the following morning (sunday) the mother of this child took it upon herself to take my child to her church without my consent! as apparently i was wicked and leading my child down a dark path of sin… this same mother wouldnt let her children dress up at halloween at school classroom parties and the her child had to sit outside the room when they class was reading Harry Potter as the class book as it was evil! well hen my daughter came home i was furious to say the least but i did ask her if she enjoyed herslef and if that was something she would like to do, she said it wasnt and she is now 17 and a teen witch and follows a wiccan path, this was never forced upon her as my eldest daughter who is 19 and respects my path but feels it isn for her and she has said i can teach and talk about wicca to her daughter (my grandaughter is 9 weeks old) as she says it is who i am and she will choose what she wants when she is old enough, but the crutch of the story is this said church sent my 9yr old daughter a letter the following week pledging her to give her weekly pocketmoney to them! i had never given them consent to take my daughters details they even had her bank details as she had her bank card in her purse always made her feel like a big girl it only ever had £10.00 in it at any given time, but as a child dhe didnt know any better and handed over the details to these supposedly trusting religious adults!!!! surely this is against the law.. i phoned them gave them a piece of my mind to the church and mother involved but when i reported it to the police no action taken as they said my daughter gave the details willingly and was in no danger and as the church had taken her off their register no harm done!

Anna, I hear you on the “Christians would take a kid” business (although there are plenty of really respectful Christians out there who would NOT). But I really hate basing what I would do on what someone else would. I have to make the choices I do based on what *I* think is right and ethical. If I don’t want someone else taking my kids and teaching them behind my back, I must be willing to do the same.

And, for what it’s worth, I initially “discovered” the Craft at age 15. I bought my own books, or borrowed them from another teen practitioner, and was a solitary Witch for a long time. That is a valid path too.

Patti

I remember you once had a list of things a minor could study, without worrying a parent.
I know one of the things was herbology. Can’t remember the other things.
Would you please post that again?

PS: I’m NOT 13. I’m in my 40′s.

Lori, can I see some identification please?

You’re probably thinking of Ten Things to Study Besides Wicca — it’s included at the end of the article, but here’s a direct link as well: http://paganwiccan.about.com/od/familyandparenting/tp/TenThingsToLearn.htm

patti

It does indeed come down not to how other people behave but how you would want other people to behave. And it really has very little to do with paganism but rather (not so common) sense and courtesy. When I wanted my son home at 6 for dinner the other PARENT would keep him out till 8 and stop at McD’s on the way. And we can’t expect more tolerance from Christians than they give to other Christians. They had whole Crusades (upon other Christians!), Popicides, turf wars, back room payoffs and who knows what else based on technicalities of belief that flip flopped over the years and now modern believers can’t even comprehend. We must take the high road if only to keep our own conscious calm and not infuse all that regret and vengeance into our workings.

Ok, I have one for ya Try teaching your own daughter, whom,at age 11, wanted to know more about Wicca,and why i am a part of it,and why it is my chosen religion,after leaving christianity. Ok, I taughter her altar tools, the Sabbats, why I have a (now,several) wand (s),and so on. Little did I know, that she was telling her older sister, My oldest daughter, everything i was saying, and teaching her. My oldest daughter,who is now 21, whom was taking us to court for visitation, had told a social worker ,that I was (get this) “sacrificing small animals on my altar,and has dried blood all over my wall behind it.” First off, that was soo not true, and behind my altar,there resided,for the last 4 years, a poster of a larger white wolf with green eyes. The police came into my home and with a pen light tool, looked for the supposed dried blood and finding none, politely left. I had never felt so violated ! It got worse: My altar actually felt violated and I wept for the intrusion. MY OWN children !!! So, needless to say,i put up my altar, made my 12 year old take out my tools, in the trash ( I did this to make a point,I didn’t want to bury them.) and then didn’t speak to her about Wicca, since then. She knows she is in the wrong,and my oldest daughter knew she did wrong,when my hubby and I informed her of religious harrassment and religious discrimination,as well as defamation of character. Through it all, I have felt sad and empty. I have just now began to practice, and told my daughters to mind their own business,and that I did not trust my (now) 13 year old.

I have enjoyed this topic but feel a need to comment on some things. While Christians have Sunday School and Youth groups we get a bad rap for wanting our children to explore and understand our paths in this world if it is not mainstream.

Many years ago, a leader by the name of Pete “Pathfinder” Davis formed Spiral Scouts to deal with this aspect. Children could only join with consent forms filled out and ultimate waivers of liability etc. This filled a void but groups are scattered.

My group, “Seekers Youth Circle” also is starting something similar but with two major changes: 1.) We teach all paths so no one path is placed above another to teach tolerance and understanding. 2.) Parents/Guardians are required to attend activities, meetings, and participate. Of course all of the legal aspects and signatures are required but we feel a need exists and we will endeavor to meet it.

While I agree not everyone is qualified to teach young people, there are qualified groups out there. You just have to search for them.

Blessings!

i am a pagan parent with two daughters who like to go to catholic church with my mom. i let them because when it comes to religion everyone has their own beliefs. i did not start getting into paganism until my twenties even though i was always interested simply because there was noone to whom i could turn to learn. i wish there was some way to make it easier for teens who want to learn. teen years are the time when you get ready for adulthood. i agree with patti’s concerns, but it is a shame there is not a way to teach the young in a way that won’t hurt them. they know what they want and if noone is willing to help, they could find themselves in world of trouble.

At the very cusp of being legal (my 18th is in 6 months), I hate to see the people who share my faith back away from me because of my age. Adults are so scared of the consequences, both on the Wiccan side, and on the parents’ side who condemn Wiccan. I know for a fact that my mom would never let me go near another Wiccan until the very second I turn 18, so it hurts that I’ve gone the past 3 or 4 years praying to the gods and goddesses and hoping that i’m not wrong.
It’s so easy to feel lost and misguided, and painful to be so alone.
I don’t say this because I think pagan adults should take minors who want to be pagan in, but that the laws should be changed and discrimination should be stopped as to stop the fear of condemnation from teaching a child what they ask.
Blessed be

I completely understand. I spent five years praying alone before my 18th birthday. i searched for things on the internet but it eventuall got so bad that my mother took my computer away until i was 18. i had to go to the public library, a library where in my hometown they block every religious website that deals with any religion besides christianity.

If you need someone who understands your situation and you want to talk then you can email me and i will get back to you.
my email is: bloodlust_son023@yahoo.com
you can also find me on facebook
just search for: William Ballew

I look forward to speaking with you but remember i will only teach anything to you after 18 or with a parent’s permission

Brightest blessings to you, Mia

William

I ALWAYS talk to the parent(s) of any teen PRIOR to working with them, even to the point of having them write and sign a simple statement, regardless if the parent(s) are pagan or not!!! Call it “CYA” (cover your a**). That way if there is any complaint or problem the parent has been told what we will be talking about.

I’ve never had a problem in doing this and parents who are asked to sign respect my position. Normally, since I don’t go beating on doors and pushing my thoughts down the throats of others, parents agree to all their children to learn or at least discuss a pagan path. I present the concept that “Knowledge is Power” and it’s important to know about other religions and ways of living.

By the way, I live in North Idaho, a more christian area doesn’t exist. In a town of just over 600 we have at least 5 chruches/home congrations in town alone.

***May I suggest Wicca/Witchcraft for Dummies. Saves a minor from running into wrong information/situations that using the internet can bring about. A Witches’ Bible by Janet and Stewart Farrar is also good, but a little more advanced. Good luck and blessed be!***

I am a Texan as well as pagan and I haven’t encountered so many Rip Van Winkle type people in my life. It is like they look forward to digesting the stupid dust. Call it conservatism but in my opinion it is gullible individuals looking for something to identify with and since mainstream religion is number #1 here people flock into churches without knowledge as to why and what for. Do not get me wrong I believe in a higher being but I believe we are giving choices and if someone doesn’t choose one over the other we are not deemed for hell.

I am currently 24 years old. I am blessed enough to be a part of an amazing coven of very talented people and teachers. But alas, it has not always been this way. When I first started learning about Wicca, I was only like 13 or 14, and the AOL 2.0 didn’t even have an instant messenger yet. I used the internet, I went to the library, and I talked to strangers wearing pentagram jewelry. I took every chance I could to go outside and just appreciate nature. I made little solitary rituals and did them in my closet. When I turned 18 I knew where several open circles were happening and since I was old enough, I started going. If you’re under 18, it doesn’t mean you can’t learn, it just means you have to be a little bit more creative, and in the end that’s what it’s all about. If you decide it’s what you want to do and it’s meant to happen, you’ll find a way. Like my mother says (and actually did earlier yesterday): patience is a virtue. Maybe the wait is a lesson in it’s own right.

I realize I’m responding to much older comments, but I tend to think that the fact that some (and not by any means all) Christian churches are willing to teach kids about Christianity without parental permission is an indication that those churches should be held to stricter standards of respect for parental authority, not that Wiccan or other pagan groups should be allowed to be less respectful.

In a perfect world, all parents would understand that their children’s beliefs might not necessarily match their own and would be willing to explore other paths with their child (so as to protect their child in his or her explorations).

I was lucky that my parents did this with me. My mom is definitely not Christian, but she and my dad (who is a non-church going Christian who has problems with the religion as commonly practiced) had no problem with me going to church with friends and family on occasion (though in my case this wasn’t so much an exploration, as I knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that Christianity was not the path for me. I just enjoy learning about other religions and enjoy connecting with my loved ones on their own spiritual paths), just as they had no problem with me exploring pagan paths.

Unfortunately we don’t live in an ideal world, and not all parents are open to their children’s religious explorations. And you know what? It’s not anyone else’s place to try to undermine that. There are situations when people need to step in and say that “No, parents don’t have a right to do whatever they want with/to their kids. Kids are not the property of their parents,” but unless there is abuse, religion isn’t that place.

I’m not sure I’ve expressed myself well at all, but I’m not quite sure how to put this into words…