Earlier this week, police raided the Phoenix Goddess Temple and arrested eighteen members who were charged with prostitution. The arrests were made following a six-month investigation, and officials say that the group was running a suspected house of prostitution under the guise of providing "religious" services.
Police seized evidence which showed that members of the temple "were performing sexual acts in exchange for monetary 'donations', all under the guise of providing 'Neo Tantric' healing therapies." I'm not sure what the details are here -- "happy endings" come to mind -- but the group was bringing in thousands of dollars every month.
The Temple's website, which is now unavailable, had a quote saying "Sex is a holy, sacred and divine healing force at the core (of) our beings. Once we embrace this force instead of deny it, we become successful, happy and powerful manifestos."
I'm curious as to how this will play out, because the Pagan community in Phoenix seems to have some pretty strong opinions on this. They range from (a) it's a whorehouse to (b) religious discrimination! to (c) who are those people and where do they get off using "Goddess" in their name? I spoke with a couple of Phoenix Pagans, and they indicate that this group never really actively participated in the Pagan community. Also, there are suggestions that it was common knowledge that this group was simply running a prostitution ring and calling it a Temple.
However, the story does bring up some interesting "what ifs." If a group -- Pagan or otherwise -- incorporates sacred sex into ritual and practice, and also accepts monetary donations from those who participate, is that the same as prostitution? And if so, is there a dollar amount which is a cutoff? What if donations are made in-kind, rather than with Lady Visa and Master Card? Just some food for thought.
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Police seized evidence which showed that members of the temple "were performing sexual acts in exchange for monetary 'donations', all under the guise of providing 'Neo Tantric' healing therapies." I'm not sure what the details are here -- "happy endings" come to mind -- but the group was bringing in thousands of dollars every month.
The Temple's website, which is now unavailable, had a quote saying "Sex is a holy, sacred and divine healing force at the core (of) our beings. Once we embrace this force instead of deny it, we become successful, happy and powerful manifestos."
I'm curious as to how this will play out, because the Pagan community in Phoenix seems to have some pretty strong opinions on this. They range from (a) it's a whorehouse to (b) religious discrimination! to (c) who are those people and where do they get off using "Goddess" in their name? I spoke with a couple of Phoenix Pagans, and they indicate that this group never really actively participated in the Pagan community. Also, there are suggestions that it was common knowledge that this group was simply running a prostitution ring and calling it a Temple.
However, the story does bring up some interesting "what ifs." If a group -- Pagan or otherwise -- incorporates sacred sex into ritual and practice, and also accepts monetary donations from those who participate, is that the same as prostitution? And if so, is there a dollar amount which is a cutoff? What if donations are made in-kind, rather than with Lady Visa and Master Card? Just some food for thought.
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I have still, yet to figure out how a dinner, movie and sex are different then paying for sex. I feel people are free to do with their bodies as they wish.
HOWEVER don’t do it under the disguise of a “religious” place, you then discredit everyone who follows that path.
Personally, I have mixed feelings here.
For one, I feel illegal prostitution is a violation of civil rights… So I’ve always supported the idea of brothels. But, the fact is that it remains illegal and that the majority of the people out there are still living in the “sex is bad” mindset – until of course it is them sleeping around. So regardless of what I feel about prostitution, or it’s legality, I am the minority (as always).
Second, Since the majority of people do not agree with my beliefs on prostitution, linking it to ANY religion or religious practice only ruins the name of all those involved. Look how many people think all Catholics are child molesters! I can only imagine this is going to have some serious backlash on local Pagans… So I feel these people, Pagan or not, did the community as a whole a disservice by using their religious practices to hide illegal activities.
Thirdly, Being there are already those who seek out Wicca and Pagan circles thinking they are getting an orgy, there are going to be a lot more disappointed pervs after they hear this! Not only is there no orgy at their local circle, they missed out on their one chance to get off.
All of that said however, I have some real questions about this case. IF the women were getting paid directly for their “work” I would say it’s prostitution, but if the donations are being made to the temple itself, that’s different. And then there is the question of sexuality and it’s place in religion. Just because Abrahamic beliefs don’t allow for sexuality to be intertwined with faith, there are a great many paths which do. So wouldn’t denying that activity or labeling it as illegal, be in fact violating ones religious rights as well? I suppose it would be. But we do have to realize, the US’s “freedom of religion” is more a freedom of belief than it is a freedom of action.
RE: “Just because Abrahamic beliefs don’t allow for sexuality to be intertwined with faith, ”
Please see: http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:2BrfMr38eioJ:keshercollege.org/_kd/go.cfm%3Fdestination%3DShowItem%26Item_ID%3D1463+jewish+sacred+sexuality&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEEShDZACpi5ruYjomz5ALuS1DQV1WGwNrv5iQ7q5×7QPiqz0Ek44B7GLxOgCha-Q0WCXWtPUWYWQRu4Bp4kfwhHffZ7W5lVumbbzM0TytGIy9YGNNZbQ60AlvthNgeDx131_pmKvl&sig=AHIEtbSwgB4hFrjUOr5OMd-nBHlVT1jkrw
It is legal for me to give my money to whomever I wish.
It is legal for me to have sex with any willing adult partner.
Why should it be illegal to do both at the same time?
Because prostitution is a very violent industry. Women are controlled, abused, and used sexually for profit. Some are still children. I am thinking this is the reason it is illegal.
Dinner, movie, and sex is a far cry from this kind of violence…..
“”Because prostitution is a very violent industry. Women are controlled, abused, and used sexually for profit. Some are still children. I am thinking this is the reason it is illegal. “”"
it is this way becuase it is illegal, in Nye county Nevada there are legal (the only place in the US where it is legal) , regulated brothels that the girls are treated well, given healthcare and are of legal consenting age and paid a living wage. if the rest of the states were to follow this and regulate brothels there would not be this kind of issue.
Not all prostitutes are abused.
Many are independents and thus self employed.
Even of those that work for agencies, not all are abused.
There are probably abusers in all industries. Go after the abusers and leave the other people alone.
Not all prostitutes are female.
I don’t think anyone has the limited rights to the use of the term or concept of “Goddess.” As has been reported, they are not part of the Pagan community and do not participate in community activities. It seems like some members of the Pagan community are trying to say that this group is only associated with the community by name, and doing so will have the effect of linking the group to the community, exactly what they don’t want.
Two more comments:
1) I agree with Bazalkryn
2) Sabrina, I don’t know anyone who thinks “all Catholics are child molesters,” but I do know people who think that a large number of Catholic clergy are child molesters and that their superiors in the clergy conspired to cover up those actions.
Is it a requirement to participate in the Pagan community to be considered a “real” Pagan? I know several families that choose to keep seperate from the local Pagan community but are very much Pagan.
That kind of thinking reminds me of someone that once told me I shouldn’t be allowed to celebrate Christmas because I didn’t go to church.
Diana, that’s a very good point – and certainly, not all Pagans are involved in their local Pagan community. However, if you have a group billing itself as a temple that is offering services to the public at large, I would suggest that such a group might *benefit* from being involved with the Pagan community. If this group had done any sort of networking with other Pagans, they might have more support on a local level. As it stands now, the fact that they have not interacted with the Pagan community at large is a bit damning, because the majority of folks are responding with “This isn’t really a temple, it’s a prostitution ring.”
So to answer your question, no, absolutely, no on is required to participate in local Pagan events. However, if you’re part of a group trying to establish some legitimacy, such involvement would work in your favor.
patti
All this time I thought I was a “sinner”… Now I know I was just being religious!
Our laws are oure hypocrisy in this matter. I can’t solicit a prostitute for sex, but I can pay a woman to have sex with me if I am producing an erotic movie. Either way I am paying for sex, only one is legal and the other is not. How about other professionals who council couples in intimacy? I know for a fact that some of these practitoners share intimate moments with these couples, and are paid for it. Its necesarry for crying out loud, and personally, I have no problem with it.
Now this temple is in a situation I simply don’t know enough about to be making judgement calls. If they were practicing sacred sex in their rituals, and the law is calling the dues provided by their supporting membership “prostitution money”, then they are being persecuted. If, however, they are paying for sex sessions then they are breaking the law. I suppose we will get more (sleazy) details as this progresses.
Blessed Be!
Larry
The facts that are stated said that this was a six month investigation.That likely means that the same undercover cops went back time and time again..Franky , that is entrapment, in my eyes.Why is it legal to solicit sex and pay for it under the guise of conducting an investigation?
Once upon a time, I was in a pretty bad place. Say what you want; I was forced into prostitution against my will. And here are my thoughts on this.
1. It should NOT be illegal. The act of prostitution itself should be legalized. This is coming from a person who hates the word to the core of her being, and wishes nobody ever has to participate in it. But if it were legal, then girls who suffer through abuse and acts of violence would be able to go to the police without being arrested themselves for committing a “crime” that they were forced to do through the same abuse and violence.
2. Paying for sex should be ILLEGAL. I do NOT mean giving money to your sweetheart or even paying off your friend or whatever you do. I mean, if you INTENTIONALLY seek out sexual ’services,’ and pay for it, that should be illegal. That is objectifying your choice of partner. The people who pay for prostitution, they always ‘choose’ the girl (or boy!) they want, with a very discriminating eye. That is disgusting.
3. I can’t truly speak for this ‘temple.’ But from what I can see, it’s not really a temple. Maybe I’m completely wrong, and they’re just a group of very successful pagans! But it certainly looks like a brothel. In which case, I still don’t think they should be punished for prostitution. HOWEVER, I do think they should be punished for using the guise of a religious group. I understand that this was probably a selling point (’exotic’ experience), but it’s not fair to the real practitioners. They can at least use the term ‘massage parlour’ like everyone else.
4. I’d also like to say that not all Catholics are creeps. Sure! There are those freak men who tortured their young boys. And it’s disgusting. But it’s only the smallest percentage of Catholics. They’re a huge population. Anyway… I don’t agree with Catholics, or with what those particular men chose to do. But, as a pagan minority, I don’t think we should point this out to them. Because… We just uncovered a large ‘Temple’ ourselves. Who are we to point fingers at them?
I live in the Phoenix area. This is not the first time this same group of people have used a “church” to hide behind. The have been busted in (2) different Arizona cities that I know of. It just irritates me that the pagan community gets a black eye from this sort of behavior. Just call a spade a spade. It is a brothel. I don’t have a problem with that part. Quit hiding behind a religious front. They do not pay federal taxes due to their “church” status. As they get in trouble in one city they go to another city. The rest of us get the fall out from this both verbally and financially.
You are correct with having been busted in other cities and from what I have read they also currently had a “temple” in Sedona.
They had a set list of required “donations” for certain ritual/sexual activities with a set time limit. That basically comes down to a set price for set sexual activities and lengths of time which is prostitution and their “temple” was a brothel. No matter what anyone has as an opinion of prostitution, current laws in AZ deem it as illegal.
As a Pagan from the Phoenix area I would not even consider them as any sort of “Neo” Pagans and agree that they should not be useing religion as a cover for their activities.
If anyone has sex in a ritual, no problem.
If a group accepts donations, no problem.
Sex as a ritual for a required amount of donation is not Pagan, it is prostitution no mater what anyone calls it.
This topic is one of the main reasons I’ve always thought that the law needs to be tempered with common sense. The courts take the law as black and white, yes or no. Well, humans are just a big bunch of maybe’s. They need to consider what’s right, who’s being nasty and who’s just trying to live their life. The laws don’t always fit all of our “situations” these days. But the courts are so bogged down, where do we start? And don’t get me started on the sense of some of these judges. Such a quandary!
sex magick is very sacred . and it should only be used derring certian rituals when me and my wife have sex magick it is different from any other time it is realy special she is already a goddess to me but she becomes the goddess of goddesses in sex magick so to offer her money would be like a sin because you want to pay her with something everyone else has or can get when you give her your inner most self and she gives herself back this is rael sex magick