Teachers Could Be Fired Over Holy Water Incident

WOW!!!!!

With these types of situations there’s generally more than is first put out there. In any case though, it always brings out the worst in people as the comments on the linked article shows. Full of hate, intolerance, and down right ignorance. People just need to show a little more tolerance, compassion, and all those other nice things their religions claim to be about.

(to paraphrase the comments on the article) “Atheists have no moral compass, she’s abviously a liar” “A teacher was embarressed in front of her students, boohoo for her” “It’s just water, what’s the big deal?” Wow, indeed. Open your minds people! There’s more to this incident than it’s impact on your personal views and fears!
We can not say just what the atmosphere of this conversation was in the classroom. If two Christian teachers did embarress (harrass) the Atheist teacher-and yes, that is bullying in the eyes of the laws they should be so clearly aware of. But it is also true that the Atheist teacher should have referred the students religious questions elsewhere. It was not her place to explain her views of such things. Adults have no right to behave this way in a public school setting. They should all receive a reprimand.

Isn’t it just as wrong to speak of ones religious disbelief as it is to speak about ones belief in a public school classroom? Yet, I do believe the harassment by the other teachers needs to be addressed.

I think they should throw the book at the (christian?) teachers who attacked the atheist in front of a class! Unacceptable on so many grounds… But I disagree with nightdove that the atheist teacher should have referred the religious aspect of the discussion to others. If the student makes a comment like that – something so blantantly urban myth for example – and the teacher can refute it, he or she should. We don’t want public school’s spreading such nonsense. (I can remember a fellow student in college asking me why she was failing a science class, when she repeatedly insisted the world was only 6,000 or so years old.. she claimed she was right because her private school science class had told her so. Hmm. I tried to explain but she just kept saying the teacher, other students, other teachers and the whole department were clearly misled. Not surprisingly she’d been a straight A student in the private school.) Faith is important but personal, it does not belong in a public classroom.

Yes there is a seperation of church an state an this should have happened off campus. Now with a look at christain history they bully who they want in the name of thier god.So they should be put out for being bullys ,would be no different if a child did this to another.
To all have a blessed day…

The article, itself, is skewed to read from the POV of the a “christian” teachers, so to determine the actual truth would be practically impossible. However, what concerns me more is that the “atheist” teacher was discussing her beliefs in the classroom. Schools should be free of religious belief, and that includes anti-religious belief as well.
Similarly, the article refers to a “lively” classroom discussion that brought the “christian” teachers to the door. I wonder what sort of “lively” they refer too. If, in fact, one of the students was the one who suggested that the atheist teacher needed a dousing with holy water, then was this woman going too far and the students vocalization of their displeasure be what brought the other teachers to the door to see what was going on? Obviously, they were wrong to do what they did, but I don’t think the other teacher was guiltless in this either. Sadly, this is exactly what happens when you have zero tolerance policies for anything; common sense goes right out the window, and it becomes a federal case.

This is exactly why I left the teaching profession. As a practicing wiccan I could not reveal my beliefs because of the fear of the ignorance that is just growing by leaps and bounds in this country. I truly loved working with children….but those other teachers. Stanley Milgrum did many psychological experiments with group mentality dynamics that speak to the type of treatment that this poor woman recieved.

As a teacher, I can safely say that Rodriquez should be suspended too. Teachers are not allowed to discuss religion at all, unless it is part of the curriculum. And even then, they have to stick to the curriculum exactly. One aspect of our training is how to respond to religious questions. If a student persists in asking about our religious beliefs, we are actually supposed to tell them that it is illegal to discuss our personal religious views with students.

As a Wiccan parent with a Christian 4th grader whose teacher told her she would play the demon in a class play because of what her mother is(she has better experience dealing with evil since she lives with it),I really wish all religious opinions of the teachers were left home where they belong.Bullying is bullying no matter who is doing it.The two teachers who threw the “holy water” should be punished for their bullying and all should be punished for letting their beliefs into the classroom.

I CAN’T BELIEVE that this really happened!!!!!! What next??? We can’t talk about anything else????????? WE HAVE TO WORSHIP THE “CHRISTIAN god”??????? I thought this was the United States of AMERICA, where we can SPEAK freely and not have to be afraid of saying what is on our minds to people!!!!!!!!

Should the student be punished for announcing his religious beliefs in the classroom? Makes me think if we could discuss religion more openly, many more people would be educated. Isn’t that what schools are for…educating? The problem, as I see it, is some religions have an agenda to sell itself to the masses. The sales pitch is what needs to be left out of public schools, not the discussion.

WOW…So then if a student asks a question in school where there are teachers that teach…And they are not allowed to answer…refer…direct…Then where does the student look for the answers…A parent? church? internet? The lie about the Africans and voudou(spirit) and slavery does have a place for discussion – on human rights…However, the lies that were perpetrated by slave trafficers, owners etc…made this stuff up out of control and in the 21 century it still works in favor of ignorance.

Before we get too carried away… lets not forget that news reporting is not news reporting anymore, it’s entertainment generating. Take EVERYTHING you read with a very generous pinch of salt until the court records are released. (That said, I do find the christian teachers’ actions believable and absolutely unacceptable.)

I am a teacher, and religion comes up quite frequently in my high school English classes. As a teacher of world literatures, one of the first units I taught was on World Creation Stories in which we studied the Norse, Aztec, Japanese, Xian, and Wiccan creation stories. Naturally there was discussion as far as religion was concerned.

The subject of religion is not verboten in American classrooms. Proselytizing is. I have mentioned to my classes on multiple occasions that I am not a Xian, but I’ve never discussed what I DO believe. That would border on preaching. Further, any of my comments on religion are prefaced with the disclaimer, “You believe what you want to believe. I am not trying to change your beliefs.”

The student who started the atheist teacher’s tirade was parroting ignorance that was spouted by Pat Robertson shortly after the Haiti earthquake. Apparently the comment set the teacher into an anti-Pat Robertson rant that morphed into an anti-Xianity rant. While there’s little excuse for a teacher denigrating a belief system, I can understand her chagrin over a student’s recitation of Pat’s stupidity.

The details of the case (as I read them in the linked article) do seem to support the defendants’ case. I find it hard to think that a teacher who was offended in the way she claims would have lunch with the perpetrators that same day and then wait 11 days to file a complaint. The fact that multiple students corroborated the defendants’ story speaks volumes as well.

It will be interesting to see how all of this works out – when the holes in the story are filled and we hear what truly happened.

What kind of people are these that carry holy water with them? If it was holy water, then the attack was planned. Was the attacked teacher refuting the allegations that the Haiti earthquake happened because of a pack had been made with the devil or was she christian bashing?
Some how I think all these teachers need to have some training in appropriate behavior in the classroom and work environment.

“What kind of people are these that carry holy water with them? If it was holy water, then the attack was planned.”

Depends upon who infused the water with its energies and intents. I make “holy water” all the time by infusing the water with more energies and intent through dipping the tip of my athame (or my fingertip) into the water and allowing the intentions/energies to flow into the water. Spring, ocean river and rainwater are already infused with the Goddess’ energies. In *their*case, if they had holy water blessed by a priest, it was premeditated. More likely, they got some tap water and threw it on her just for symbolism (and aggravation). Not only is it bullying and wrong, it is assault and battery.(The water made contact; it’s battery.) I hope they both lose their jobs.

Let’s not get off track –Rodriguez was not teaching religion, but responded in a lively discussion which allowed the class to debate, respond and express different opinions. I love the fact that students can in this day and age do this. Those other two teachers deserve to be punished. Throwing “holy water” on someone to dispel evil is not their right.

I would like to know why we can freely discuss the death penalty, abortion, marriage, homosexual lifestyles, etc but not religion. The above mentioned beliefs all stem from our religion. I find it sad that we (and I mean everyone) cannot state our beliefs without fear especially when asked. I was sure the First Amendment allowed freedom of religion without a “but” or “unless you voice your opinion” clause. My mother used to say “Wouldn’t it be nice if closed minds also came with closed mouths.” She also told me if I didn’t have anything nice to say, I shouldn’t say anything at all. She was the wisest woman I know.

I am a practicing Wiccan, and have been for the past 11 years. I have 2 children that I raise Christian because that is their choice. My fiance’ is Mormon. Living in such a diverse situation religiously, I have come to see that the reason none of this should be in our public schools is that no matter what is said, most of the time, someone will be offended. We hold our beliefs so close to our heart, that even the most trivial comment and hurt someone down to their very core.
I think all parties involved need religious sensitivity training.

First of all, this is a classroom where you’re supposed to be learning, correct? You should be able to ask and have answered any question that comes to mind. If you want more opinions, you should be able to get them without consequence. Secondly, it seems that for years teachers have been hired with less and less education. I can tell because of the state of our children. It seems knowledge and civility are most definitely on the decline. I know there are some good teachers out there, but there are so many who shouldn’t be teaching at all … like the two idiots in this story. There were so many different ways they could’ve handled their discomfort and opinions with this teacher, but instead they decided to be the lowest, most idiotic and least compassionate of people. Would you want those two teaching your kids or the teacher who was assaulted?

First of all EVERYONE has a right to the protection of their personal space and it should not be violated. Further more, I am so tired of hearing about the division of “church and state.” Classrooms are a place to LEARN. The purpose of living is to learn and grow. The problem with letting religion in school is they only let one religion in. The Christian religion. The teacher did not open the discussion of religion, the student did, and the student had been misinformed from what ever source she received her information. The problem with diversity in beiliefs is that everyone wants to sweep the atheists, satanists, wiccans, and any other religion that opposes the Christian belief system under the rug and ignore it. We live in a day and age where more and more people are “coming out of the broom closet” so to speak and practicing their beliefs openly. That teacher has a constitutional right to her beliefs, and it should not be a crime for her to discuss a topic such as the Hatian earthquake with a student from the view point of a curse that involved beliefs. How else will people learn? How will they come in contact with various belief systems and know why people believe what they believe? Where will they learn tolerance? Christians wear their crosses all the time to school, government jobs, etc. But let a wiccan wear a pentacle to school or work and that is taboo. I hold two college degrees, cetificates for education in business, a license for religious counseling and a ministers license. I openly live my beliefs as a Wiccan Witch. But, I also exercise tolerance for others beliefs, and respect their right to choose. Engaging in a debate over beliefs and opinions at to why something happens should not merit being attacked. They say “it was just water”. True but it was the principle of the matter. The discussion was not meant to harm but to discuss and debate. The other two teachers were not involved in the conversation and did not have the right to invade her personal space. If they opposed what was taking place they should have went to their supervisor. The only way that things like this can be stopped is for the world to realize that there is more than one belief system and that we all have a right to choose for ourselves. Tolerance is a rare gem and needs to be a world wide practice. Christians need to wake up and realize they do not rule the universe and stop reacting out of ignorance.

Mistress Saffyre H.P. of the Enlightened Path Coven

The point in fact is – two adult teachers threw water (it doesn’t matter if it was Holy Water, Ice Water, or Muddy Water) on another teacher in front of her students during a classroom discussion in which the first two teachers were not included or in attendance. That is the fact. Taking the fact as it is the two teachers, regardless of their faith, intended to get the first teacher wet by the use of the water and in the progress interupt the first teacher’s class discussion.

First the 2 teachers should be charged with assult not just bullying. Throwing anything on anyone without their permission is assult (next time it could be a brick!).

The 2 teachers should also be disciplined for flagrantly interupting another teacher while instructing students. The lack of respect for the teacher’s position, if not for the teacher, should be questioned by the school board and the parents.

Don’t let the religious aspects of this case confuse you. The 2 teachers need a visible punishment because of their visibility to the students. My guess is that there has been a distinct rise in bullying at this and other local schools because of it.

Thank You, Caracalla! If chrisitians held their belief in such high regard, why make it about religion? It could have read: Two teachings bullied a third during a lively discussion. I believe,(from my recent experiences), that people are using religion as a “scapegoat”, to prove now that the “devil” exists, in whatever form is convienent. Hold on to your hats ladies and gentlemen, outward bullying is a sign of psychological issues that need to be addressed. A psych evaluation is in order for the two “christians” teachers who displayed the inappropriate behavior. Assault, is not what children need to experience during a “discussion.” Telling someone “they’re all wet” would have surficed.

What these two teachers did was to show the students that it is OK to assault anyone who does not think and believe as you do. Children learn by your example far faster than by what you say. These teachers should be severely disciplined!

I think all three teachers are at fault to a degree.

No the two teachers never should have thrown holy water at their co worker, but at the same time religious (or anti-religious) discussions should not happen in a high school.

Though as a couple people have mentioned, I think there is more to this story than what is being shown.

babyjane hit the nail right on the head!

These two knuckleheads will get their desserts! Make a good example to the students by using this situation on handling bullying. Terminate the two and get rid of them!

the only time religion is made a big deal is if Christians stand up for their beliefs any other religion, belifes or none belief is consideredv freedom of speach I agree there must be something missing from this story for things to have gone to this extent. what do you think would get a bigger reaction someone pulling off a nuns habbit from her head or doing that to a muslim woman? we all know. commenting on the action of the teachers is unable to be don intellegently since we don’t know all the facts. by all means let ignorence rain on

I believe ghandi said it best when he said, “I like your Christ he is so tolerant. I do not like your Christians they are so unlike your Christ.” Also I think they all need to read my favorite bumper sticker , “Minds are like parachutes, they only function when open.” It makes me so sad that people are so closed off. My daughter has been educating her classmates and teachers, ever since there was a open problem with her getting bullied for her beliefs. Now, they ask first before assuming anything. Blessing to All.

Stormeyes, you’re right. Why are all these stories about Christians taking negative action against anyone that doesn’t follow their exact path? When have you read about a Pagan or Wiccan or Druid assaulting someone because they don’t follow a pagan path??? I thought the Bible teaches to “love one another”. I don’t recall a footnote saying “But only if they think and act just like you.” And they wonder why churches are more empty lately.

I would tend to think that the teachers should receive some sort of
serious punishment, because what they did was highly uncalled for.
I wouldn’t object to their outright dismissal, especially given the
fact that they denied the incident, even though it happened in
front of multiple witnesses. This certainly was an instance of
bullying.

As a Christian I am in a state of “What the heck” when I see issues like this come up. I am surrounded in my life with wonderful diverse people of various religions, traditions and belief systems. I have raised my son to be very opened minded and respectful of all these differences. Children do not learn by the way of “do as I say not as I do” they learn by what they observe. What did these 2 teachers teach these children? That it’s ok to do physical violence when you don’t agree with someone else and that it is ok to publically humiliate to prove your point. It saddens me that children are not allowed to have the opprotunity to speak the truth or ask real questions in the very place that they are supposed to be learning. It’s also sad that a teacher can’t give an honest answer or allow for open dialog in her classroom. instead having to say ” it’s illegal for us to talk about that “. It’s too bad we can’t just say” Hey, this is what I believe, what do you believe? Cool, we have some things in common and some differences. Wow I just learned alot” and leave it at that. I know,” in a perfect world”, but wouldn’t that be peaceful. That’s my blab, thanks for listening.

Wow. I can’t believe things like that happen today.

I wonder how those people would feel if sprinkled with “unholy water”. I don’t think they’d be so cool about it.