Take the Poll: Does Anti-Smoking Act Go Too Far?
Thursday February 26, 2009
Recently a group of Native Americans had to move an annual sacred ceremony from their tradtional home in Illinois to Iowa. They didn't move because they hate Illinois or anything... but according to Illinois Smoke Free Act, the tribe would have been in violation of state laws by performing smudging rituals indoors. Religious ceremonies are not exempt from the statewide smoking ban in Illinois, so leaders decided to head over to Iowa, where the legislature had already approved a religious exemption.
In January 2008, Larry Cooper and about three hundred other Native Americans were holding their annual Winter Gathering in Carthage, Ill. When the smudging ceremony began, they were asked to leave the Bradley University building they were using, because they were violating the state's new anti-smoking law. According to the Smoke-Free Illinois Act, smoking is defined as "anything that produces smoke," and that happens to include incense.
Cooper says he has tried working with officials to get an amendment passed to Illinoi's law, allowing exemptions for religious ceremonies, but so far it hasn't gotten approved. He makes a valid point, though -- what about Catholic or Hindu ceremonies that use incense? Or public Pagan celebrations? Certainly, health issues are important, and no one wants to breathe second-hand cigarette smoke... but what about religious freedom? Should religious groups be exempt from state smoking laws? Take the poll, and tell us what you think!
In January 2008, Larry Cooper and about three hundred other Native Americans were holding their annual Winter Gathering in Carthage, Ill. When the smudging ceremony began, they were asked to leave the Bradley University building they were using, because they were violating the state's new anti-smoking law. According to the Smoke-Free Illinois Act, smoking is defined as "anything that produces smoke," and that happens to include incense.
Cooper says he has tried working with officials to get an amendment passed to Illinoi's law, allowing exemptions for religious ceremonies, but so far it hasn't gotten approved. He makes a valid point, though -- what about Catholic or Hindu ceremonies that use incense? Or public Pagan celebrations? Certainly, health issues are important, and no one wants to breathe second-hand cigarette smoke... but what about religious freedom? Should religious groups be exempt from state smoking laws? Take the poll, and tell us what you think!
Comments
Although I believe that a religious waiver for insence or smudging should be allowed, I sincerely hope that someday there is a law passed that makes smoking cigarettes illegal. I smoked for 26 years, and never gave it a thought. Was always one of the first to get vocal when someone suggested that cigarettes should be outlawed. I quit because it was time for me to. Still I would defend smokers rights.
January 1, 2009 I was diagnosed with extensive stage small cell carcinoma lung cancer. It has already mestastized into a brain tumor. In the past 2 months, I have had 2 surgeries to remove tumors. I am facing radiation and chemotherapy. My cancer is the most aggressive type of cancer there is. I have been given less than 5% chance of living more than 5 years with this. My cancer is also caused exclusively by smoking cigarettes.
I no longer defend smokers rights. Instead, I tell smokers about small cell carcinoma and beg that they quit while they still have their health.
I pray that cigarettes are outlawed soon.
Oh, Tracy, I am so sorry to hear this.
Isn’t it scary that cigarettes are the only product out there that, when used as intended, are designed to hurt you?
I hope your story convinces at least one person to quit.
patti
also a former smoker
Tracy my prayers are with you. I am also an ex smoker. I find it unbelievable that in this time of ultra rights, the right to NOT breathe someone else’s killer carcinogens is entirely forgotten. It is murder pure and simple to force someone to breathe second hand smoke. Especially children and disabled or ill people. On the topic of smudging for religious reasons and incense – I really think more research is needed. I have a roommate who uses a smudge stick that made me and our other roommate violently ill. We thought he was smoking some nasty pot and I had made it clear that smoking was not allowed inside. He brought it out again when our other roommate died a couple weeks ago (with my consent though I hadn’t realized it was that same noxious horror) and even he noticed that time that it was pretty wicked stuff. I think anything that affects someone else needs to be given careful consideration.
I hate when politicians blindly sign off on bills/laws without really thinking about the wording and potential issues that could arise up from it. I mean “anything that produces smoke.” That’s a lot. Guess I could get fined for burning toast if I lived there. And watch out for those birthday cakes, those candles you got on there produce smoke :-O
I believe the intent of the “generic” wording of the law was to prevent loopholes by trying to list all of the different ways people can smoke tobacco.
That being said, I am glad that the ban is in effect. I enjoy going out and ended up avoided those places with alot of smokers.
I think their wording is interesting.
But having gone to Church this weekend, I noticed that the candles on the alter smoked. I guess that those can’t burn either.
The law has to be the law and no one should be naturally exempt unless they specifically make the effort to apply, like this native group did. Come on, guys, we love the Earth and putting stuff in Her atmosphere is never a good thing, whether it’s a ‘harmless’ smudging stick or a cigar.
Physically smoking a substance, be it tobacco, marijuana, heroin, sage… causes different reactions in different people. I am highly allergic to all sorts of smoke, be it burnt toast smoke, bonfire smoke, cigarette smoke or whatever. My lungs aren’t very strong (from asthma and other issues) and inhaling someone else’s smoke makes me very ill. If you want to hold a ritual that features smudging, be sure that everyone there is ok with that, likewise if you want to smoke cigarettes, or ruin your existance by smoking illegal drugs, knock yourself out, just spare a thought for the poor folk who don’t want to inhale whatever it is you’re chucking out into the atmosphere.
Tracy, peace and best wishes to you and your continuing life. I will share your story with everyone I know.
I would like to know if the Illinois Legislature had considered the home fireplace as a source of inhaled smoke? We only use our fireplace when we have an ice storm and the power goes out for days. I take it that in Illinois they all have their fireplaces bricked up? so as not to offend? We need less Big Brother legislating mandatory stupidity.
Hugs & Blessings, Tracy.
I do not think many people understand the significance of tobacco in our ceremonies and customs. To us, tobacco is medicine, medicine you do not abuse! It is one of the 4 Sacred medicines (juniper, sweet grass, sage being the others). I cannot imagine meeting with an Elder and not offering him tobacco wrapped in red cloth, or attending ceremonies and not having tobacco thrown on the fire. This is HOLY to us. Truly, to NOT offer an Elder tobacco is so very disrespectful. Honestly, you would be shamed!People would not forget a slight like that.
I know people smoke and abuse it, ending up with cancer. But, we had this medicine (and that is what we call it!) long, long before Europeans came over.
Tracy, I am sorry what happened to you. But for those of us who are Native, please keep in mind we could not legally practice our ways intil the 1970s. Old people still do not want nonIndians around at many events because our faith has been used against us, and for them, tobacco is an element of faith.
No need to go hog-wild until we know exactly what the law states. When issues like these come up we should know all the facts before taking a poll. I don’t live in Illinois therefore I do not know what the Illinois law states. But if it’s all encompassing as everyone seems to think it can be ruled by the supreme court as unconstitutional.
What bull sh*t. . . pardon the France.
As an asthmatic and one allergic to cigarette smoke (among other allergies), I was beyond excited when more and more states were putting anti-smoking bans in (I used to live in Washington, one of the first to do so, and now am in Illinois for my husband’s Navy career) – I’m bad enough I can just pass by someone smoking and go into a coughing fit, and usually have to use my inhaler to stop. My parents are avid smokers (though not around me), and were upset about the bans, but understood for people like me, as well as people who do sincerely care for their health.
On this subject, though, I believe religious ceremonies should have exemption. For me, it would still mean my asthma would act up if I were attending, but I feel it would be my choice either to be a bit miserable and use my inhaler, place myself in a place within the area that I would not be affected (possibly a window or doorway?), or not attend.
As PPs have said, there are many religious rites and practices that hinge on the sacred use of sage, tobacco, candles, incense, etc., and I don’t find banning these practices fair to people trying to practice their religion, especially when everyone in attendance is alright with the practice and is expecting to be able to enjoy it.
I see in the story that the ritual was being held at Bradley University building. With that in mind I can understand to some degree why the smudging was stopped, even if I do not totally agree.
Those buildings often have fire codes and regulations that must be followed for safety reasons as well as law.
Sometimes there is no choice but to rent a building for gatherings, when possible it may be best to gather in a place that has fewer rules to contend with. Although that is not always easy, its usually worth it.
Sometimes the way people use the law is just stupid. Too often we get someone in office or behind a badge that thinks they have some power over the people because of thier authority. I wish there was some way to shake these type of people and remind them they are not immortal.
A few years back we were organizing a gathering and needed to rent a building. We rented the Senior Citizens Hall in town. This place was used by everyone around our area, churches, businesses, etc. I called a 2 months in advanced and reserved the place for our gathering. We asked anyone who came to bring 1 item for a care package to send to Afghanistan to our soldiers.
We had planned an old Saint Nick “Odin-claus” for the kids,and were going to have a dance and dinner there since the building had a nice little kitchen. Every thing was planned to be family friendly to all who came (not just Pagans), followed by a our usual circle to find out who’d been sick, getting better and what not, and offering our prayers for good health. Everything was going great. We had toys wrapped for the kids, the Odin costume made, musicians prepared to play live music, food being prepared and all the invites sent out.
The Judge Executive of our town called me 2 days before we were to have our event and told me we could not have our party there because they didnt allow “those kind of things” to take place in thier buildings.
Asking what “kind of things”, he refered to the listing we had published on our personal site which had a graphic of a burning cauldron, along with other pictures of holly, greens, and candles… and claimed he had to have the fire marshal come check the building to see if we could have fires there.
Obviously he does not know the difference between pixels and real life because he made wild claims that we were going to have burning pots of fire in the building over that one graphic on the web page.
Then he directly attacked my religion, saying that my kind was not welcome around here.
I went to school with this man, I grew up here same as he did, and my family has been here for years before I was born! I’ve seen him passed out drunk under a water truck before, and saw him and his friends trying to conjure “the devil” one night too. It was shameful to say the least. He is not the most innocent of men, so don’t even get me started!
My family helped to build this town, and he said I’m “not welcome?!”
I was outraged. I contacted the ACLU who said they’d look in to it then never heard another thing from them. To date nothing has really been done to compensate the time we lost or the feelings which he trampled.
The point is, often times the law is abused, not just by people breaking the laws, but by people claiming they are enforcing them.
These laws are placed as a guideline to be used with a little common sense by all of us, which it seems that some people severely lack at times.
Human compassion and common sense seem to have all but gone out the window with the passing of every law these days. I miss the days when we could trust the smile on a stranger’s face to mean they are happy to speak with you. Now that smile may mean they have something against you and intend to use it, and are just being nice to you for spite.
An honest smile is hard to find.
Candie, I totally understand where you are coming from with a different point of veiw. Our family raised and sold tobacco for many years as struggling farmers. That was the main cash crop in Kentucky where I live. They have not only taken away what was sacred, but also taken the money which fed our families with thier constant changing of laws and trying to control how we use our lands to grow our crops. They wanted us to put chemicals on our land that would ruin our soil, but we would not. They have no idea what they are doing, sitting in chairs pretending to be gods.
We live off this land by hunting, fishing and growing gardens. Raising tobacco paid our bills, until they made it impossible for us to make a profit. We stopped raising tobacco when it began to cost more than we made, shortly after that the companies began to face law suits from smokers.
It was difficult to watch so many small farmers go bankrupt and lose thier homes. We were lucky we pulled out when we did, even if it has been hard on us ever since, at least we did not lose our home… yet.
I would like to point out one thing however. What is in those cigerettes is not sacred like what Natives once used. They put everything in them, not just tobacco. Peanut shells, pesticides and a ton of other things that are swept off the warehouse floor go in to those cigerettes that are mass produced and sold. If you take a pure leaf of tobacco and burn it then burn any brand cigerette you can tell the difference in the smoke and how it smells, even in how it burns and the smokes color. It doesnt take a rocket scientist to prove that habitually smoking cigerettes that are mass produced will make you sick. It just takes common sense.
Tracy, My prayers are with you. Keep your chin up and keep up the good fight. Remember there are 2 types of people in these situations. There are victims, who tend to complain and remain victims.. and there are survivors who use what they were given to try to make a difference. You definately sound like a survivor.
My best friend in life and signifigant other was once a heavy smoker too. I begged him to stop but he persisted, saying he’d smoked since he was a young boy, refusing to quit. One fateful day while camping in the mountains he began having pain in his chest. I brought him home to the doctors we trust, 120 miles on a wing and a prayer. His lung had collapsed. He has not smoked since that day. He said, sometimes you have to face death in the eye before you realise exactly where your headed. I told him (joking) I would have gladly helped him face it sooner if that would have helped him along his way. He laughed, then we blessed the second chance he’d been given.
I’m sorry, I could write a book as much as I ramble, but there is so much to say.
Life is beautiful, its the people who are not fair. Getting others to understand that is like trying to teach a penguin to fly. It wastes your time and annoys the penguin.
Blessings to all.
Tracy, my prayers are with you and your family. I, too, am an ex-smoker, and I ignored the potential dangers to myself, and my family.
As for that law, I would have to read it to make an informed opinion as to what it’s referring. I know some laws are made hastily, but for religious purposes, I believe it should be allowed. Those in attendance know what to expect, and can decide for themselves whether or not to attend. Being of Native heritage, I smudge with sage, and there is nothing more powerful to my spirit. I can’t imagine having a Sacred Circle without smudging first. My husband is sensitive to the sage, but he will stay near an opening, and we will leave it open to filter the smoke. I can’t speak for other religions, but our use of smoke – from any plant/herb – is not exorbitant. We use it for its purpose, and that is it. It is bad enough that Native peoples didn’t have religious rights until 1978, but we still have to fight to practice our worship traditionally. I believe this group should be allowed to practice as they wish. Now if this is a public location, that may prove difficult. But if it is solely used for this group, I think they should keep it that way and return home.
That is so stupid. You know, I was in US Navy boot camp last year, which happens to take place in Great Lakes, IL. I guess the US Navy/federal government doesn’t care about Illinois’s law, because every Sunday during the chapel services held by the Orthodox Christians, as well as the one held by the Buddhists, there is incense burned.
Unless the Catholic Churches are policed as equally as any other organization, I feel this law should be repealed or rewritten. And what about all other things? If my wife burns dinner, can she be arrested and/or fined? What if I get a new, more powerful microwave and my popcorn scorches? Would this law also make welding illegal? What about traditional blacksmithing? This law is a prime example of the idiocy in “our” government!!
Everybody start kissing you “free country” goodbye.
And for all the ex-smokers and asthmatics, don’t celebrate other people losing their freedom. Yours will be next to go. And think about the health of people who smoke for a moment – is it healthy to force them outdoors in the dead of winter to smoke? Hardly.
Laws like these make it illegal for a business to be sympathetic to people who smoke. before laws like this, many establishments banned smoking of their own free will, and people irritated by smoke had a choice to go someplace that voluntarily banned smoke. But now, people who smoke are denied the basic benefit of HEAT. We’re shoved out in the cold like animals.
This is getting big enough now in Illinois that everyday people are finally seeing how ridiculous it is. I hope. Surely, we’ll see how the catholics like being forbidden their incense. As well as everyone else who burns incense.
Tracy, did you have your home tested for Radon?
To Rev Zak Zennii and others: You’re correct, we do not have complete freedom in this country. I am not free to fire a gun into a playground. I am not free to drop a bag of anthrax on the subway. I am not free to walk up to your plate in a restaurant and sprinkle cyanide on your food.
And smokers are increasingly not free to put their cyanide into my personal breathing space.
I for one am ok with those particular losses of freedom.
As to the “It’s my habit and my choice” argument; I could argue that firing guns into playgrounds or dropping anthrax on the subway are my habits and my choice.
Or I could have a modicum of respect for humanity and limit my bad-habits-in-public to things that don’t adversely affect other people’s health (sense of smell not withstanding). E.g.; when I sit next to you and drink a Pepsi, it doesn’t go into YOUR stomach.
As to anti-smoking laws going so far as to cover sage smudging, I think that does take it a little too far. I’ve yet to see any research that burning sage is any more harmful than sitting next to a campfire.
But as American laws go, people will find loopholes. So it might not be a bad idea to start with “Anything that produces smoke” then list the exceptions from there.
I do not think Government should be involved in the personal rights of Free people.
I live in IL where this particular thread is referring to and it is for PUBLIC places only! It does not refer to a wife who burns dinner. I’m not sure if a church would be considered public or private, but I’m guessing that no one has reported them for burning incense during their ceremonies. I also, believe it is specific to cigarette smoke.
Personally as a person who has been increasing sensitive to smoke, I appreciate it. I suppose according to the smokers on here, if I’m in the middle of the meal and someone lights up and I suddenly find myself unable to breathe, I should just walk out in the middle of the meal because their rights are more important than mine???
I’ve also lived in Utah and Arizona who have banned smoking in public and the businesses still were thriving afterwards.
That said, the businesses around here that have a large population of smokers have set up smoking areas that include propane heaters to make it more tolerable for those that must smoke.
Hate that smoking has become the new/acceptable object of derision… Just moved from Seattle, and their overly-prohibitive anti-smoking laws are just a way for them to discriminate against people of color and the homeless (2 of the few groups who smoke openly; many others -yuppies- still smoke but hide from view lest they suffer the public scorn that Seattlites love to dispense!).
Smokers can be respectful of others, but when one group tries to entirely prohibit anothers’ freedoms/rights, that’s where it crosses the line.
Tracy, I’m truly sorry for your diagnosis, however, your statement that cancer is caused ‘exclusively by smoking’ is both overly-simplistic and so totally NOT an accurate medical description. To wit (and to use a Seattle icon), if you had been diagnosed with diabetes due to many lattes/highly-sweentened coffee drinks, would you make the same argument that Starbucks should be banned/shut down due to your diagnosis (even though you had voluntarily participated in the cause of your disease?)? Would you condemn people you don’t even know for enjoying Starbucks products?
Just curious… and yes, I do smoke.
Tracy, I’m truly sorry about your diagnosis, but to state that it was ‘exclusively caused by smoking’ is overly-simplistic and NOT medically accurate.
If you had been diagnosed with diabetes from your love of all things Starbucks, would you want to shut down/ban Starbucks? Would you judge others whom you DO NOT even know as bad/sinful/stupid that continued to enjoy Starbucks products?
Just moved down from Seattle which has some of the most inane anti-smoking laws in the US; seems as if it only targeted the nonwhite and homeless (many others hid from public view to avoid the public evisceration of which they are so fond!)…
When one group seeks to totally shut down/prohibit another rights, *that’s* when lines are crossed…
Mary Wood,
And what if I start complaining about you driving your car and dumping carbon monoxide into my personal breathing space while I’m taking a walk down the sidewalk?
Car exhaust is massively more toxic than cigarette smoke. But nobody’s trying to take away your freedom to drive!
And How come you folks with asthma get all choked up (literally) when someone lights a cigarette, but you can still drive a car down the freeway and not have an asthma attack every time a mack truck goes by? I think it’s psychosomatic.
Interesting comments. Would like to read the law, myself, to see what it actually states.
It is my opinion that “public” buildings probably should have this prohibition but should also offer a room/space for those who want to smoke. “Public” buildings (that rent out their space – like senior centers) should inform any users, at the outset, of their rules regulations and restrictions so the potential renters have all the facts with which to make a decision as to it being a good fit for their group “happening.”
I also believe that private businesses have the right to decide if they allow smoking within their walls or not. Folks who do not want to be around cigarette (or other) smoke can make a decision to patronize this shop (or bar, etc.) or not. I feel that bars, especially, should be able to make this decision. Those who object, don’t HAVE to go into OR apply for work at, OR work at such a place.
The decision to carte blanche ban ALL smoke is unmitigated nonsense! Here’s an idea – want to protest this law? How about a bonfire (with PERMITS, of course) and burn all the law books and start over?
If we all loved and respected one another and cherished each other’s rights and freedoms as much as our own – we wouldn’t NEED any laws, now, would we?!
I work closely with the Aboriginal Culture and we too also have a total smoking ban in effect. There were many issues with regards to using tobacco in ceremonies, as it is considered a medicine, but here is something to think about. Originally, when tobacco was used, it was used in it’s purest form, that form was also less toxic as to what it is now. Through the manufacturing process, many poisons are added, so really, the modern day tobacco is different and less a medicine then what it is in it’s pure form with no additives. So, bottom line, pure tobacco should be allowed in religious ceremonies, not modern tobacco that is smoked in cigarettes.