Pagans and Hunting
Wednesday November 5, 2008
It's bow season here in Ohio, and that means every weekend, the woods are crawling with hunters trying to get a deer. My friend Morg, who is a die-hard Celtic recon type of guy, makes the point that for him, the hunt itself is ritual. It's not so much the act of killing the deer that he enjoys, but the spirituality of the pursuit, the tracking, and drawing the arrow back in the bow. The kill is simply the end result of this process, and this too is something he celebrates as ritual, honoring the deer after it goes down. Like other ethical hunters, he uses every part of the deer, and nothing goes to waste.
This led me to think about the numbers of Pagans I've encountered who are not only opposed to hunting themselves, but are horrified that other Pagans might want to do it. There seems to be a question of "How can you be Pagan and think it's okay to shoot animals?" I think what it really comes down to is not "can you be Pagan and hunt" but "can you, as a hunter, do so responsibly and ethically"? For more on this, read Pagans and Hunting.
This led me to think about the numbers of Pagans I've encountered who are not only opposed to hunting themselves, but are horrified that other Pagans might want to do it. There seems to be a question of "How can you be Pagan and think it's okay to shoot animals?" I think what it really comes down to is not "can you be Pagan and hunt" but "can you, as a hunter, do so responsibly and ethically"? For more on this, read Pagans and Hunting.
Comments
My wife will be traveling to George Washington National Forest in northern Virginia next week for a hunting trip with her father. She has long said that time spent in the forest is spiritual in nature; the hunt is merely an excuse to go out into the depths of the forest.
She’ll be taking our children with her. They too can experience the feeling of Divine associated with a close connection to nature. This is something my children need - time away from gizmos and gadgets, electronic media, and their non-Pagan friends.
Native Americans have long understood the Divine nature of the hunt. It is only modern humans with a contemporary outlook who believe that there is something inherently ‘wrong’ with hunting and killing an animal. Far better for the animal to have run free in the wild prior to being taken as game than to have it raised in a cage and slaughtered unceremoniously as a product.
Kudos, Patti.
I am not a hunter myself, but as there are a number of hunter/huntress gods, including Diana who is one of the most popular Pagan deities, it makes perfect sense for Pagans to hunt. I think as long as it is done with honor, ritual, and respect for the life you are taking, there should be no problem with it.
Animals have sacred spirits, yes. But so do plants. It seems to me that someone who argues that it’s wrong to eat animals because you have to kill them first, misses the point — in order to eat plants, you have to kill them, too! If it’s wrong to kill animals for my food, it’s also wrong to kill plants and eat their babies (seeds) for my food. And then I’m left with no food, and that’s an argument against my own existence. Humans are animals, too — we live to survive, and we eat to live! Death is a necessary part of life.
Personally, I’d rather eat venison that’s lived in the wild all its life, than factory-”raised” beef anyway. That’s a matter of how the animal lives *before* it’s killed for food.
i grew up in a hunting family and have always know that it was natural thing to hunt an animal and eat it. from day one i was taught that you eat what you kill. this seems like something people should look at before we point angry fingers. every animal kills. this is a more fair way to get our food.
My husband, an agnostic, hunts the first deer season. Knowing my beliefs, and his respect for nature, we use every available part of the deer except for the fur. We don’t have a tanner here and we don’t know how to do it ourselves. The fur is usually donated to the local Boy Scout clubs or the other clubs like that. He knows how I feel, and respectfully honors it after the kill. I am proud to say that until I met my husband I had no respect for many hunters because the do it for sport. But my husband, his family and friends do it respectfully and carefully. I am proud to be a Pagan in a hunting family.
I agree. I believe that it is in how you approach hunting–the respect, ritual, and understanding of the act and of the animal. I have seen hunts that have been beautiful and noble and ones that were no better than senseless murder.
jh
bodanutrition
“senseless murder”??? Puleeze!
Get a grip on reality. Slaughter for the purpose of killing or trophying is always wrong, spiritually. But, murder?
Kevin
When I was growing up my father & I would go deer hunting every fall. He taught me to be disgusted by those hunters who took only the trophy parts and left the rest to rot.
My father rarely shot anything, he just loved being out of doors with his son. When I was 13 or 14 my father & I tracked a four point buck and eventually dad was able to shoot him. It was the closest I’d ever been to another creature’s death. My father turned to me and said “You’re old enough to field dress him yourself.” As I did I realized just how sacred life is. After that we went hunting but never shot at anything. We didn’t need the meat, but the companionship was a real blessing.
That deer’s antlers are sitting on my altar, a constant reminder of my father, an image of the God and a sign of the sacredness of life.
I honor that deer’s life & death and will always have a greater respect for life because of him.
I was very pleased to read all of the positive comments concerning the issue of Hunting Pagans. I am of Nordic decent and have been studying about my past Germanic Heathen roots. Yes, as the Norsemen (aka vikings) were strong warriors and hunters, they too also lived by the old ways and in respect to their gods and goddesses they saw hunting as a ritual and rite of passage.
Thank you, my fellow believers, for not demonizing those of us who are 3rd and 4th generation hunters who simply live off of the land that our gods have provided for us.
I enjoy the peaceful moments before and after the kill. The peaceful calm and serenity of being in the wilderness and knowing that I am carrying on a time honored tradition and ritual. I proudly display the racks and heads of some of my past kills as a way to honor the thrill of the chase and the skill of the hunt. Now if you see me doing this with the heads of Iraqi Insurrgents and Muslim Extremesits that I have fought in Iraq…then yes, please get me some help to end that senseless killing…lol.
Blessed Be to all.
A proud Wiccan Warrior
I am a pagan and I pride myself on my respect for life in and for e animal kingdom. Well, Either way you look at it it is still killing. I don’t feel you need to kill or “can hunt” an animal for food when their are so many other vegan choices. We don’t live in the past when we needed to hunt for food. Leave them be. Yes, they are are a food source for OTHER animals but this is within their KINGDOM and REALM not OURS. I feel it is infringing and abusing not only them but their property after all truth be told they were here first! RESPECT them! Once they are gone we are gone. THINK!!
Now, Do we go out and hunt other humans? Personally, I would like to hunt a human because that in itself is a “REAL” challenge not some scared defenseless animal who can’t defend itself. Besides, remember you are what you eat and if that animal has been eating pesticides and other poisonous items you too will be eating them. Hence, why do you think their are so many reproductive issues in men and women? Ever stop to think it’s the antibiotics and steroids in the meat. I research and deal with kinesiology, nutrition and health matters. Well, all I can say is if you knew what I know about these issues you would take a closer look and stop eating “any” kind of meat, wild or otherwise. A carcass is a carcass regardless of what and how the animal was raised or processed. And their is no “HONOR” in Killing. “Isn’t man an amazing animal? He kills wildlife by the millions in order to protect his domestic animals and their feed. Then he kills domestic animals by the billions and eats them. This in turn kills man by the millions, because eating all those animals leads to degenerative and fatal health conditions like heart disease, kidney disease, and cancer. So then man tortures and kills millions more animals to look for cures for these diseases. Elsewhere, millions of other human beings are being killed by hunger malnutrition because food they could eat is being used to fatten domestic animals. Meanwhile, some people are dying of sad laughter at the absurdity of man, who kills so easily and so violently, and once a year sends out cards praying for “Peace on Earth.”
-By C. David Coates
My response is to (3) about plants. I believe you’ve never seen a plants life cycle. I see it around me all the time especially, cotton. Ex. cotton planted grows a green stem and a bulb by the time it is ready to be picked the plant stem is brown and dead and all that is left is the cotton for picking. I also read somewhere in a book that a plant has already lived its full life by the time you pick it or eat it. Your not killing what is already dead and to be disposed of by Mother Earth. You are eating what Mother Earth has given you and has agreed to feed you by her will not by our force. (Hence, when we try to force Mother Earth for a high yield we get a bad crop or less than originally planted.) So, NO, YOUR NOT “KILLING” A PLANT TO LIVE.
I see no problem in hunting for food. My family doesn’t hunt but we accept deer our hunting friends have taken in season and we pay for the butchering and processing. We have 2 deer in our freezer right now. I would rather my children learn where real food comes from. I would rather they ate wild meat that had never been subjected to growth hormones or antibiotics. My husband has considered learning to hunt deer himself. As Wiccans we believe this can be done in a respectful manner.
I don’t kill animals and I don’t eat animals. For me, this is just a personal choice. After a scare with a potentially fatal illness, I decided I would put NOTHING dead into my body again. On the other hand though, I was born and raised on a farm where my family raised all our own meat and opening day of dear season was like a national holiday. As a Pagan, I have no negative feelings towards those who hunt. As long as it is done legally and ethically and the animals harvested are used for food source. I mean, how else did our ancestors survive except to be able to hunt and fish along with growing their gardens?
I believe that as humans we’re meant to eat meat. We have both kinds of teeth, that’s not by accident. We’ve always hunted and eaten meat.
If you go in the woods with an AK 47 and spray bullets everywhere and whatever you hit, you keep, that’s NOT hunting.
Going in the woods for a few days and spending them tracking, scenting, etc. is different. Hunting for one animal, then using everything the animal has to give, that’s different. Eating the meat it’s given, using it’s skin, that’s honoring the animal. They give themselves up to who they find honorable. I have a buddy who hunts and I totally approve of his tactics, so I enjoy some of the meat he brings.
I am a certified animal nurse, so an animal activist at my roots.
Trophy hunting is NOT hunting in any regard. Should be punishable by law.
My buddy makes his own steaks, sausages, deer jerky, pepperoni, everything. I respect him for how he does it. He looks at the animal as another living being who is sustaining him.
If it’s respectful, it’s OK.
In my opinion anyway.
Mary you wrote “I am a pagan and I pride myself on my respect for life in and for e animal kingdom. Well, Either way you look at it it is still killing. I don’t feel you need to kill or “can hunt” an animal for food when their are so many other vegan choices. We don’t live in the past when we needed to hunt for food. Leave them be. Yes, they are are a food source for OTHER animals but this is within their KINGDOM and REALM not OURS. I feel it is infringing and abusing not only them but their property after all truth be told they were here first! RESPECT them! Once they are gone we are gone. THINK!!
Now, Do we go out and hunt other humans? Personally, I would like to hunt a human because that in itself is a “REAL” challenge not some scared defenseless animal who can’t defend itself. Besides, remember you are what you eat and if that animal has been eating pesticides and other poisonous items you too will be eating them. Hence, why do you think their are so many reproductive issues in men and women? Ever stop to think it’s the antibiotics and steroids in the meat. I research and deal with kinesiology, nutrition and health matters. Well, all I can say is if you knew what I know about these issues you would take a closer look and stop eating “any” kind of meat, wild or otherwise. A carcass is a carcass regardless of what and how the animal was raised or processed. And their is no “HONOR” in Killing.”
Read what Laura wrote ” Animals have sacred spirits, yes. But so do plants. It seems to me that someone who argues that it’s wrong to eat animals because you have to kill them first, misses the point — in order to eat plants, you have to kill them, too! If it’s wrong to kill animals for my food, it’s also wrong to kill plants and eat their babies (seeds) for my food. And then I’m left with no food, and that’s an argument against my own existence. Humans are animals, too — we live to survive, and we eat to live! Death is a necessary part of life.”
“Personally, I’d rather eat venison that’s lived in the wild all its life, than factory-”raised” beef anyway. That’s a matter of how the animal lives *before* it’s killed for food.”
It is true you do have to KILL Plants, Fruits, & Vegetables. Once you pick or harvest any of them they die a slow death. Think about this every time you pick, chop, & eat anything. Also don’t kill Any Bugs either Roaches, Mosquitoes,Fly’s, Nat’s, Fleas, Lice, Ticks, worms, Yeast, Bees, Honey, & Etc.
i agree with Mary. It’s not necessary to hunt to live, anymore. You can buy plenty of food with the money it costs for hunting permits, gear, and transportation. i’ll eat meat if there’s nothing else available, but it sickens me to see the attitude of people who can look at a beautiful creature and only think of killing it. You can thank it and honor it all you want, but that’s just to make yourself feel better- it does nothing for the animal that had to give up its life for your entertainment and your meal.
I feel that hunting is a way of life for some. But those who just hunt for sport and waste …. that is wrong. I am Pagan and I do not see anything wrong with hunting as long as you use every part of the animal and give thanks as it should be.
This really is simple…what is our number one rule…
Harm None, Do What thy Will.
It does NOT sat…Harm no humans…it says HARM NONE…including animals. I am a firm believer that Hunting is not only wrong in so many ways, and no one can tell me they “respect” the animal by eating it. Unless they make the weapon…such as a spear themselves, don’t buy it, and have to use what Goddess gave them…using their own two legs, not a 4 wheeler, be naked…not in clothes that make them look like a tree when Goddess did NOT make them to look like a tree, and use weapons that kill from a mile away…that’s not respect…if a hunter were to use what Goddess gave them only…have to chase the animal down using their own two feet, their bare hands…then and only then, would these people learn what TRUE RESPECT for animals means.
I am wiccan and hunt, and have for years. Didn’t always get one but it is peacful to go in the woods and sit. I have seen good and bad comments. Another point to look at also is accidents and damage the deer cause. Also there is a hunting season to keep the herds healthy. If there are to many, disease spreads and a population can be wiped out. Then there is nothing to see or experience, ritual or otherwise. I take only what I or my family needs and use what I can. This is honoring the deers life and sacrifice.
I guess I look at it as the redneck in grew up as - animals are here for a reason. They provide us with food and clothing. I also look at it in this way - humans have destroyed the predator/prey rlationship that keeps things in nature in balance. As responsible people, it falls to hunters to help right this balance. Granted we don’t always take the weakest or the sickest. But as a pagan I cannot consionably reject hunting when I want to aid in the earth balancing herself. I must do my part, and sometimes that includes hunting. To everything there is a season, a cycle and a purpose. We have a part to play just as every living thing does. It only differs in how we choose to play that part.
I am a hunter. I work 4 the State Forestry also. I hunt where deer R a problem, ie., eating crops, damaging, diseased, overpopulated. When a life is taken, I give thanx!!!
I was raised in a hunting family/community. My husband of 15 years loves to bow hunt and much prefers it to gun hunting. For us, it is a way of life. We hunt responsibly, being careful not to take larger does so they can provide for the next generation is one way. To say that hunting is no longer needed by an advanced people does not apply to us. Hunting for food, plant or animal, may seem primitive to some but it it still necassary as it provides our family of 6 with much needed nourishment. We teach our children where our food comes from. Even when we buy it, they understand where it is from. Hunting it is preferred because it is far more cost effective, hands on, and local. I don’t feel it is primitive at all. And like it or not, animal populations must be kept under some control. It is irresponsible to think we can just let animals ‘do their own thing.’ What better way to care for the Earth than to help it’s population of animals and plantlife thrive in a manner that keeps it AND us healthy? As for the law, sometimes doing nothing is harming.
All excellent points. NiteDove, I agree about hunting providing for one’s family. My husband gets two deer each winter, and it is enough to feed my family of five all year long. I haven’t bought commerically processed meat in about four years. Not only is it a money saver (because it costs me about $1.29 a pound to get venison processed) it’s also healthier — I know that the deer we eat have been consuming weeds and seeds, not antibiotics and growth hormones.
In addition to the meat, we use the hide and antlers. The innards of a field-dressed deer are consumed within 24 hours by the scavengers in the woods around here, so there is literally nothing left.
patti
I am proud to have had the opportunity to occasionally bowhunt in honor of Artemis, and only after practicing a great deal and passing a self-imposed accuracy test each year before the hunting season. Where I live, the deer population has skyrocketed through the past few decades and the deer no longer have any natural predators other than humans. Two new deer diseases are already spreading through the population and lyme disease is a huge problem in some sections of the state. In some areas they are even adversely affecting native plant populations through overbrowsing. When considering that leaving their numbers unchecked would only make these problems worse, plus eventually lead to mass starvation of the herds, it is much healthier for people to fill their role in the ecosystem by continuing to hunt them responsibly. It’s healthier for the herds, and it’s healthier for humans since venison is much less fatty than the meat of most farm animals.
I live out in the country surrounded by woods. I can’t go outside with out hearing multipule shots, which was very frightening to me as a child, and still is. I worry about hunters that will shoot at anything, as we have many house animals that are allowed to roam about freely.
I wish there were many more hunters that were considerate about what they did instead of just wanting blood shed.
I have never understood how anyone that eats meat can be horrified by hunting, and I’ve met many. A vegan I can understand, although I have my personal opions about whether plants are “dead” or “alive”.
To many people are removed from the fact that they are eating an animal that they were responsible for having killed when they buy prepackaged meat in the store. They may not have personally spilled blood, but they paid someone to do it.
My family also butchard any deer that were taken ourselves. Something I think meat eaters should experience as well. You can not take away the persoanl responsibility with a carcass in front of you.
Last, anyone that says hunting is easy has never spent a morning slogging thru brush or freezing in a stand. It’s hard work, it’s more hard work if you get anything. But the experience of truley being a vital part of the forest is priceless.
After reading these posts, I am feeling quite ill.
First off, I do eat store bought meat (or did until now) mostly because I do not like rabbit food…
I don’t condone hunting as a “sport” - I think that is truely hypocrytical.
I do believe if you must kill to survive, then you must… but please do not believe that you are doing Mother Earth a favor by hunting. You do not hunt and eat the sick, or diseased animals… BUT, if the predetors weren’t hunted to extinction, then Mother Earth will balance Herself as always.
I personally would never be able to kill an animal, unless it was self defense. I can’t eat lobster knowing they go into the pot of boiling water alive and screaming!!!
If I think about what kind of animal I’m eating, I tend to not be too hungry… I pretty much have to force myself to eat it.
My grandparents were farmers. They had cows that they raised to eat, they have one of the bulls head on their fireplace - his name is Big Red. My father would trap muskrats so my great-grandmother could make stew, and he raised chincillas for their furs. I know this is what people needed to do to live - but I just couldn’t do it. If given the choice of having to kill to eat or competing with the bunnies for their food - move over bugs bunny!
one more Q… why do you need to kill something to spend time in the forests?
I am a Pagan and have always been against hunting. One of the reasons is I also am a wildlife rehabilitator and I get to see the side of hunting people are either ignorant about or refuse to acknowledge. Yes I am talking about animals that are shot , trapped or shot with a bow and are still alive. These are the calls I typically get during hunting season. yes, I have heard about “ethical hunters” but I for one don’t believe anything is ethical when it comes to killing animals, even if you use the “whole” carcass. You have a need to shoot something ? Go and have fun shooting your buddies with paintballs, go shoot a target. Or, hang out with me for a day and see what I see, maybe it will change your mind. ( oh yes, the whole keeping populations in check attitude, that is what natural predators are for, I hardly believe hunters go out and kill the weakest animal they see, and how mnany of you have a “trophy head” hanging on your wall ?)