Church & State Questions for VP Candidates
Thursday October 2, 2008
Over at Newsweek's On Faith blog, journalist Susan Jacoby raises some interesting questions for Vice Presidential candidates Joe Biden and Sarah Palin. She says, "I do not care whether Joseph Biden believes in the Roman Catholic doctrine of transubstantiation, which states that bread and wine are actually transformed into the body and blood of Christ during the Mass. I would care very much, however, if he suggested that this religious belief should be presented as a fact in a public school science class. And I do not care that Sarah Palin has worshipped at a church where she received a blessing to guard her against witchcraft during her campaign for the governorship of Alaska. I would care very much, however, if Palin wanted students to open their school day with an invocation against witchcraft."
Good point, indeed, especially since there has been a lot of commentary about Palin's ties to Bishop Thomas Muthee, who is really big in the fundamentalist anti-witchcraft movement in Kenya, but not a lot of clarification on the matter from the McCain camp.
At any rate, these are important questions to ask a candidate of any party, especially if you happen to be of a not-the-majority religion in this country. Honestly, it doesn't matter to me if you can see Russia from your house. What I want to know is are you going to protect my rights as much as you protect the rights of the guy sitting next to you in a church pew? And if the answer to that question is anything other than "Yes, I am," then you're not a candidate I feel safe voting for.
Good point, indeed, especially since there has been a lot of commentary about Palin's ties to Bishop Thomas Muthee, who is really big in the fundamentalist anti-witchcraft movement in Kenya, but not a lot of clarification on the matter from the McCain camp.
At any rate, these are important questions to ask a candidate of any party, especially if you happen to be of a not-the-majority religion in this country. Honestly, it doesn't matter to me if you can see Russia from your house. What I want to know is are you going to protect my rights as much as you protect the rights of the guy sitting next to you in a church pew? And if the answer to that question is anything other than "Yes, I am," then you're not a candidate I feel safe voting for.
Comments
The issue of being anti-witchcraft or not seems insignificant compared to her policy of allowing the slaughter of wolves from aircraft.
Well, that and the fact that she clearly has no idea about anything to do with either domestic or foreign policy.
patti
As for the separation of Church and State, it seems to me that I remember that Churches were not supposed to “support” a candidate running for any office. I’ve seen quite a bit of running around the edges of what used to be law. In fact, I received an email from Grassfire.org begging me for money to distribute flyers at “churches and communities”. The flyers title was “Quotes and Votes”. I subscribe to the email list to help keep an eye on what the far evangelical right is up to.
Is there someone to whom I can inform that this is happening? Is this Legal???? Seems like it violates Church and State laws prohibiting Churches and Church leaders from telling their parishoners who to vote for.
Here is the link to the information.
http://www.grassfire.org/10097/offer.asp?Ref_ID=1819&CID=97&RID=2453795
Folks, she has as much experience as Obama and he is running for the top spot, not VP.
Personally I would rather see politics kept out of this group as it is too easy to start a flame war and has nothing to do with Wicca.
Both sides will say anything to get elected, then do what they want to, deal with it.
Personally, I’m having an all-out celebration at Samhein, and asking the Lord and Lady, my Goddess Hecate, and all other gods and goddesses which path to choose to vote for….they know as much as any human I’ve come across.
I just wish that people wasnt so narrowminded to the point that you have to hide your studies in areas like Wicca in this day and age. I cant tell my family that I have studied Wicca because of regilious intolerance.
I`ve seen the video of the alledged “prayer” ceremony and came away with one thought…here`s the African counterpart to Ernest Angley!!! Just wait. As soon as the people of Africa get cable tv in their huts, there`re be an uprising of “John the Baptist” Shower Curtains for the low “Donation Price” of just $19.95!!!! Or maybe a set of hand painted “Noah`s Ark” Soup bowls made from genuine coconut shells!!!!
`Nuff said!!!
rjcurits,
Not all of us “out here” are so narrowminded. But, then again, I am a fallen away Episcopalian. And, I was for New Hampshire voting for the first openly gay Bishop.
I am also for open borders and live and let live as long as you don’t hurt anyone else.
Wicca seems like a peaceful religion. I am sorry not everyone sees it like that.
Edan, I would agree, but everything this woman believes and everything she does IS anti-witchcraft. Slaughtering wolves, and a myriad of other wildlife, destroying beautiful Mother Earth for a few drops of oil, is most definately anti-witchcraft!!! She is intolerant of anyone’s beliefs if they are unlike her own. She and McCain have started a race war, and it’s gonna get uglier… it seems like if you aren’t an all white, god-fearin’ right wing christian extremeist (wearing a cow bell and following the masses to the slaughterhouse), then you are the enemy… and it scares me that our rights may be stomped on.
It’s people like that who started murdering witches many moons ago, and it’s very easy to see how it started.
I remember when I was growing up I was different, my parents were poor working class people but I was ‘happy’ at least I thought so then. I am now a Wiccan and I see that I’m still different from the ‘right, good’ people who go to church and think they know what is best for everybody. My sister and my mother know I am a Wiccan but they have told me that they are ‘praying’ for me and my soul. I like being Wiccan and I like being different and I like eating chocolate and I will vote for the character Robin Williams played in that movie before I vote for either Obama or McCain. A made up character is much preferable!
Can we please vote for Robin Williams character? He’s the only honest one!
Seriously though, it really doesn’t matter why you vote for who you vote for - because no one is going to mirror every issue with you - you pick which ones matter the most: choice, religion, foreign interest, military defense, immigration, minority rights, whatever…
But please keep in mind, your presidential vote doesn’t REALLY matter, does it? Did Bush win the majority public vote? NO! Why? Because our government believes we are still to ill informed to make our own choices, & they refuse to abolish the electoral college - you remember the electorates, don’t you? They voted Bush in, & they are the only reason he got elected. And the electoral votes will decide this election too.
We should be looking for a candidate to run who will abolish the electoral college, & then maybe we’ll get some decent people running in parties other than the only two who ever get any attention in the media & electoral college~!
nice… now she’s killed 14 wolf puppies!!!!
this woman needs to be stopped! Any chance she might go hunting with Dick Cheney?
Anyone remember the movie Brewster’s Millions, I vote none of the above.
Problem with a candidate who says s/he will eliminate the electoral college: the electorates will never elect her/him.
Even if you believe that Palin has much experience as Obama, you must have noticed that Obama is willing to answer the press’s questions about issues whereas Palin is being shielded from giving interviews lest she betray her lack of depth and knowledge. She wasn’t even able to answer the question,
What do you read?
Speaking of reading, since Palin has shown an interest in being able to ban books, what books to you think she would ban first? Watch out, Harry Potter!
I thought you might get a kick out of this.
A friend and I created a YouTube video called “A Shout-Out to Sarah Palin from an Everyday Witch” as a response to her having asked a Pentecostal preacher to give her a blessing to protect her from witches. I just thought I would share it with you. If you are a big SP fan, feel free to delete it:)
The video quality isn’t great, since we filmed it using Robin’s webcam, but if you turn the volume up on your computer you should be able to hear it okay.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmlDK-ZXx8E
Go ahead and forward this to whomever you believe will like to see it! I’d like to see it really get out there!
Affectionately,
Deborah
How can you people be worried about wolves when so many innocent children are murdered by abortion??? I don’t get that sub-standard logic!? How can one be more worried about an animal that an innocent human child?? That’s why some of you are not taken seriously. Makes no sense. Harm none anyone??
Sarah Palin’s reading list would be enlightening, that’s a fact. Probably same popular fearmongering ‘end of the world is coming and USA is THE only hope of civilized (read here’ male, white, and narrowminded) MANkind!’ rot that is on my own parents coffee table. VBS
You know, it might be enlightening if every public school kid had to actually STUDY upon the history of European conficts over religion. Killing in the name of your own particular plastic Jesus is so stupid!
Letting your dogma over run your karma makes for a mess.
Donna
A practicing Celtic farmstead kitchen witch
She’s probably a fan of the “Left Behind” series, which I believe was written to instill fear into anyone that wants to think outside the approved theology.
It seems to me in this election, probably more than ever before, we are faced with a choice between which is the lesser of two evils! It would appear that FDR’s words “We have nothing to fear except fear itself.” ring true for more situations than he ever imagined when he spoke them. The extreme right are very dangerous people if for no other reason than they fear anything they don’t know, understand, or view as “different” from themselves and that most definitely includes ALL Pagans no matter what your chosen path may be. Never…repeat NEVER underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups…especially when they are fearful/fear-filled!!
PLEASE! Let’s keep the political comments off this site. It doesn’t help anything. It does make the other person angry. Is that what we are about? Myself, I am voting McCain/Palin. I believe just as most on this list does. At the same time, I feel in my heart to go with McCain. Wolves? This is what you are going to base your vote on? Oil? Let me set the record straight. The area in which they want to drill is desolate. Not all flowery like some try to make you believe. Nothing there…wake up! Obama wants to take away my rights, he wants my firearms. Let me tell you, I believe as you do … no harm. At the same time I am a realist. I have served this country. I have worked in Law Enforcement. There are BAD people out there and I WILL protect myself and my family. McCain is my candidate. Obama is more of a liar than Obama….no doubt. Go ahead all you liberals out there…start bashing me and get it out your system. It won’t matter.
Larry, you failed to follow your own advice by leaving the political comments out of the conversation
Let’s try to focus on the topic at hand, which is the separation of church and state issue and how that applies to the viewpoints of the candidates.
No mudslinging or namecalling allowed, k?
patti
Patti, you said it well!
Looking at comments here and listening to comments on the street, to see how easily some are misled into believing what one camp wants you to think about the other is frightening (yes, in particular what the McCain camp wants you to think about the Obama camp. They knowingly lie because they know most of their constituents won’t fact-check them).
That is imho a scary setup for dismantling the separation of church and state. “Listen to me and me alone and don’t you dare fact check me” is the kind of thing that keeps Christians and Republicans (and yes, sometimes non-Christians and Democrats) in power over uneducated masses who won’t question their leaders or read the bible for themselves to see what it really says or doesn’t say.
The whole point of separation of Church and State is to get away from that my-invisible-friend-is-right-and-yours-is-wrong mindset. That devotion to country need not include devotion to one person’s divinity.
Look at the record….Obama is against gun ownership. Check the facts, go ahead. You will see this is correct. Larry had it right. Liberals are just as bad as conservatives. Drink the koolaid people….drink the koolaid. Check their records for yourself instead of listening to other people. Think for yourself.
We endorse Obama:
The Communist Party USA views the 2008 elections as a tremendous opportunity to defeat the policies of the right-wing Republicans and to move our country in a new progressive direction.
The record turnout in the Democratic Presidential primary races shows that millions of voters, including millions of new voters, are using this election to bring about real change. We wholeheartedly agree with them.
While we do not endorse any particular candidates, we do endorse and join in the anti-Bush/anti-right wing sentiments that are driving so many people to activism.
The fact that the Democratic frontrunners are an African American and a woman speaks volumes on how far the country has come. Hillary Clinton’s campaign has attracted large numbers of supporters, especially women. Other Democratic contenders presented some excellent proposals to reverse the devastation caused by the Bush administration’s policies.
Barack Obama’s campaign has so far generated the most excitement, attracted the most votes, most volunteers and the most money. We think the basic reason for this is that his campaign has the clearest message of unity and progressive change, while having a real possibility for victory in November.
As we see it, however, this battle is bigger than the Democrats and Republicans, even though those parties are the main electoral vehicle for most voters today. Our approach is to focus on issues and movements that are influencing candidates and parties.
We will work with others to defeat the Republican nominee and to end right-wing control of the new Congress.
The activism growing out of this election will help guarantee a progressive mandate no matter who is elected. It is critical to our country’s renewal and future.
We think this election is a great opportunity to bring an early withdrawal of US troops from Iraq. It can mean job creation and relief for those who are losing their homes or unable to pay their bills.
This election can set the stage to advance the interests of working people; of those excluded because of race, gender, sexual orientation and immigration status.
This election can begin to turn the tide: it can help bring universal health care, save the environment and start the restoration of our democratic rights. This election can strengthen democracy for all.
In the long run, we see the need for an independent “people’s party” — an electoral party that will unite labor and all democratic forces. We also are working for a political system and government whose priority is to watch the backs of working families, not fill the pockets of the corporate fat cats. Our slogan, “people before profits” and our goal of “Bill of Rights socialism” say it all.
Author: CPUSA
lemme splain somtin to you lucy… I mean Larry. Vote for whoever you want to apparently you are basing your vote on whoever lets you carry a gun)… it doesn’t matter - they are all the same. You could take the best part of mccain, palin(if she has a good part), biden, and obama and you still couldn’t get enough good parts to make one decent candidate! Sure, they talk the talk… they are “salespeople” - and they are trying to sell us a lemon!!! And that’s what we’ll get either way.
Obama wants to have tea parties with Iran and all middle eastern countries, while McCain wants to start wars with all of them! And then lil miss moose burger wants to obliterate all endangered spieces, pollute and desecrate Alaska - all so she can dig up a few barrels of oil… and the rich just get richer, while the middle-class and poor sink into oblivion, and all end up on welfare - oooppps- there isn’t any money for that - because it all went to bail out the rich wall streeters - guess we’ll all starve to death then.
It’s not just about wolves… it’s about life. They do not care about wolves, several species of migratory birds, polar bears, and wild salmon…etc. Many of which are endangered species! They do not care about all the men and women who have died over in the war - they just want to send more troops and start more wars! They want to take away your rights - but they can’t. They can’t rewrite the bill of rights. If they did (and they won’t) take away your right to own a gun, you’d probably own one anyway… likewise, if they took away a woman’s right to abortions (and they won’t) she’d find a way to do it herself.
You wake up!!! They don’t want to just drill in a desolate place - they want to START there, and then “drill baby drill” They want to drill off shore also, where the last of the wild salmon go to spawn… what do you think will happen if there’s an oil spill there?
There… got it out of my system…
BTW, Larry, Thank you for serving our country, I appreciate that, and I’m glad you lived to tell about it.
Isn’t an invocation against witchcraft in itself witchcraft. If they only knew.