DesMoines Pagan Symbols Can Stay if Owner Gets Permit
Saturday July 5, 2008
In a follow up to last month's kerfluffle about a DesMoines resident who painted Pagan symbols on his fence, it looks like city officials have taken some time to re-think what, exactly, constitutes graffiti. Now, Deputy City Attorney Mark Godwin says officials have dropped the graffiti complaints against Ryle and Rachel MacPebbles, after deciding that the fence is covered under a city law that regulates signs. This is because the symbols were not painted by vandals, but by the owner of the fence.
After the property owners appealed the city's complain on religious freedom grounds, city officials this week decided the symbols can stay as long as the MacPebbles family applies for the $35 sign permit. Ryle MacPebbles has said he's agreeable to this decision, and will apply for the permit so he can stay in compliance with city ordinances. He said, "We're not devil worshippers. We believe in peace. ... I don't want to make an enemy of the city, I just want my equal rights."
After the property owners appealed the city's complain on religious freedom grounds, city officials this week decided the symbols can stay as long as the MacPebbles family applies for the $35 sign permit. Ryle MacPebbles has said he's agreeable to this decision, and will apply for the permit so he can stay in compliance with city ordinances. He said, "We're not devil worshippers. We believe in peace. ... I don't want to make an enemy of the city, I just want my equal rights."
Comments
WAY TO GO!! May The gods continue to smile upon equal rights for all pagans!
Yeah, I’m so glad. Fair enough.
That’s awesome news, but I wonder; if the symbols were Christian, Jewish or Muslim in origin, would he have had to pay $35 for a permit? Somehow I doubt it because governments don’t ever seem to want to piss off those three religions, but they’ll damn sure make “alternative” religions pay for stuff that otherwise would’ve cost $0.
It’s funny how Christians (and other “mainstream” religions) always complain about being persecuted and pagans are always very patient about such things.
It makes me happy to know that the MacPebbles family managed to get this taken care of!
Blessed be!
I am glad to see that this has turned out this way, but, I fear the battle for equality is far from over. As was stated in PurpleScorpion’s comment, if the sybols would have been of a “mainstream” religion ie, a cross, Star of David, ect. it is highly unlikely the owner would have had to pay a dime for it, but it is a glimmer of hope and we should take heart in this victory and never give up until we are treated with equality.
Hmmm, I don’t know if I would be ok with my neighbor having any sort of symbols on their fence like that, regardless of their meaning. Imho, it just doesn’t look nice to have anything spray painted on a fence,or any other object for that matter. Apparently I am destined to live in a HOA neighborhood to be happy. :p
Hate to be a voice of dissent, but the city made a bad decision, here. I read the original article and saw photos of the fence in question. The symbols are not only scrawled in ugly black paint, but in order to put them where they are, the gentleman had to walk onto his neighbor’s property to paint them — a neighbor with whom he is involved in a long-standing feud. I suspect the symbols are more about picking on someone he doesn’t like than about religion. After all, if he just wanted to paint some warding symbols, why not paint them where only he and his family could see them? Frankly, I don’t blame his neighbor for being upset; I know I would feel harassed and threatened if some neighbor crawled around my yard and painted crosses and ichthys fish on my side of the privacy fence.
Patricia
The article said the symbols were facing the street and the picture shows the fence is along the length of his property so he didn’t go onto his neighbors property to paint the symbols. Whether I would want to have the symbols (any symbols) on a fence in my area is an interesting thought.
As a Wiccan, I very much believe in freedom of religion and get irked when mainstream is hissy about something outside thier comfort zone. However, I do have to say, the symbols on this fence were not done in a visually appealing way and had they been simply for the benefit of his family and an expression of his relgion, the symbols would not have been placed in sight of others nor would they have been so haphazardly done with what appears to be a spray can. I rather suspicion these symbols were placed to flaunt and/or provoke someone. And so it did. And in looking at the disply of the symbols, one can see how the distinction of vandalistic graffiti was made because that’s exactly how much care it looks like were put into placing those symbols on the fence. I do believe in standing my ground and I won’t take no guff from others but I also don’t believe in poking the world in the eye with my differentness - it just begets more animosity and I’m not the only one that pays for - ALL Wiccans and Pagans do. So, we should remember that when we take our stands to ask these two questions: is this position really good for me? And it is good for the greater good of all Wiccans and Pagans? If it reflects poorly on either or both, a person might should think again. I don’t like “in your face” tactics by either side.
Perhaps a mural in good taste would have been a better way to do what he did and could be quite the conversational piece.
I like this one: http://www.granitegrok.com/pix/pagan%20art.jpg
Good for them. . . though, It don’t really seem it’s a religious discrimination thing. More of a city bureaucracy thing. Lucky he don’t live in “planned community.”
I don’t think this family in Des Moines intended the painting as anything more than to make someone angry. There was nothing artistic about it. I am all for expressing ourselves freely and while I am glad that they were recognized for religion (a step in the right direction for us) I think there was a better way to show pagan pride.
Way to go. I am glad to read that they fought the city and won. I just wish others would realize that we have been around a lot longer then there god and Jesus.
Blessed Be…
I agree with Raven - if you want to call it art, leave the spray paint on the shelf and hand-paint something that’s not going to be considered “grafitti.” Besides, you can put more peaceful, protective energy into the design if you’re doing by hand, in my opinion.
Spraycan can be used artistically; but then it’s usually a coloured feature or the whole fence is neatly painted.
Art is art… black gordy spray painted signs designed to provoke hate are a totally different matter!
Go out again and do a proper job; make it look nice & artistic; then you shouldnt need to be paying anything as it will just be a lovely, arty, painted fence.
I just looked at the picture that shows the symbols on the fence and in my opinion; this was done in bad taste. It actually reminds me of a Pagan I know who doesn’t know anything about any other religion, yet he’s pissed off at them all. He wears his penacle for all the wrong reasons and he wears the biggest and loudest one he can find as well. I’d be very upset if one of my neighbors did something like this.
I disagree with Cenu (see above) about symbols and such don’t look nice painted on a fence. If it is your fence you have the right to do whatever you want, and like most have posted it is a win this time around…mainstream religion would not have even been questioned.
Good for you, and awesome stand up and display of officials…Its about time people and officials didn’t get bullied by what other people think is right…thank you for following the law and gaining respect and doing whats right. Its time people stop being afraid of what they think is evil and be afraid ofthat they know is evil….Proud Pagan Marla in West Virginia
Personally I do not like the way the symbols were painted either but I am not the one who has to live there neither do any of you. This is their home and if they want to use simple black spray paint then that is their choice. The reason the symbols were painted on the OUTSIDE of the fence is to ward off outward negativity as stated in numerous articles. Do I think he may have done it to make himself a spectacle, I most certainly do but none the less it worked in our favor for a change. Sometimes one has to make an ass of themselves to get noticed even if we agree with their motives or not.
Beatus Exsisto,
Pluvia
Just wondering…would anyone have said anything if he had spray painted a cross or such???? Maybe he should try that in the manner he did his symbols and see if anything is said or if he has to pay…..maybe wait till later in the year??? Who knows. But if he built the fence I agree, he should be able to decerate it the way he wants. If he has a fued going with his neighbor, their were other ways to deal with it. Since it was carelessly done like each statement that has mentioned it says…then he was showing no respect for Paganism etc. But as has been stated…it got peoples attention, he somewhat won another notch in the belt for Paganism, etc. But now it needs to found out and does he have the guts to do it?,…to spray paint crosses and the starof David on his fence to see what is said and if he has to pay…just wait a year at least. L.O.L. I for one have decorated my home’s windows with the pentalce, the sign of Dagaz, moon and stars and no one has said anything to me but that I had pretty decerations. Maybe it was the way it was done.
Walk in Peace
Shelia
Since the Supreme Court has reconized Wicca as an official religion, it should be a mute point it he has pagan symbols or not. I seriously doubt that someone would run around crying fowl if a cross was painted..Sounds like to me the city officials should brush up on their laws..
Good outcome~ glad to see “fairness” prevailed.
I feel that it’s his fence, he can paint whatever he wants on it. And the above person is correct: the city wouldn’t be demanding “permit money” if it was any other religion — they just don’t like admitting they were wrong. Anyway, a religious symbol isn’t a “sign”. I have seen designs painted on shutters, (one family had their Coat of Arms painted on their shutters) homes, etc. and no one asked for a sign fee.
Regarding the people who disliked Macpebbles work because it was done with spray paint.
I’d like to point out that untalented people have as much right to create artwork as the talented do.