Pagan Symbols on Fence: Graffiti or No?
Tuesday June 10, 2008
Over in DeMoines, a story comes to us about a Pagan couple that has decorated their wooden fence with symbols of their beliefs... and are now being told by the city that it's graffiti, and has to come down. Ryle MacPebbles and his wife have a plain wooden fence, on which they have painted a pentagram, some runes, and a bull. The city of DesMoines is claiming that it's in violation of a city ordinance describing graffiti "inscription, drawing, picture, letter, number, symbol or other written communication" on surfaces not intended for such use.
MacPebbles says the symbols on the fence (which are on the outside, not the inside) are protective measures to keep his home safe. The city ordinance doesn't address religious symbols, so one has to question whether or not a family who hung a cross or the Ten Commandments on their own fence would be called out on this as well. And you know, I've got to wonder... if it's your OWN fence, how does it count as graffiti? I mean, there's a house along the freeway not far from me that has entire Bible verses painted on the south wall.
MacPebbles' wife, Rachel, told the DesMoines Register that an attorney has advised them to contact the ACLU.
MacPebbles says the symbols on the fence (which are on the outside, not the inside) are protective measures to keep his home safe. The city ordinance doesn't address religious symbols, so one has to question whether or not a family who hung a cross or the Ten Commandments on their own fence would be called out on this as well. And you know, I've got to wonder... if it's your OWN fence, how does it count as graffiti? I mean, there's a house along the freeway not far from me that has entire Bible verses painted on the south wall.
MacPebbles' wife, Rachel, told the DesMoines Register that an attorney has advised them to contact the ACLU.
Comments
Jason has a great discussion of this up on the Wild Hunt as well.
http://www.wildhunt.org/2008/06/graffiti-or-religious-expression.html
seems like the law is sadly against these people. That said, it’s a badly worded law that should be changed. I don’t think it’s appropriate to limit what a person displays on his or her personal property.
yeah, i live in Des Moines and i saw this in the paper. I wish i had a wooden fence of my own to paint a cross on, see what happens. And isn’t it his own property? i don’t know.
Hi, Patti- your link has you WP post instead of the story…
I’ve got mixed feelings about it. I’ve seen laws that make people mow their lawn so that they don’t have grass a couple feet tall. It may be their own property, but it can negatively impact the resale value of neighboring homes. Looking at the picture of this guys fence, I would not want a home near it because it just looks horrible and frankly I’d assume it’s graffiti before I thought it being the guy’s own work. Those symbols could be done in better fashion so it doesn’t look like graffiti. Graffiti artist will tend to graffiti in areas that already have graffiti (marking territory) so if they perceive this as graffiti it may make them more inclined to graffiti up this fence or other areas in this neighborhood.
I’m not familiar with placing these pagan symbols, but couldn’t he get the same effect by placing the symbols on the inside of the fence? Also, like a poster at the above linked page said, perhaps he could use wooden cutouts of the symbols and screw them to the fence. it’s an idea anyways. I’d like to think this guy is willing to negotiate how he displays the symbols, but it sounds like he’s being a little on the stubborn side.
So right. If a Christian has the right to post THEIR belifes (i.e.:Bible verses) on their own property, there is NO reason someone of Pagan belife should not be able to do the same. As long as it’s on their own property and not causing damage to anyone elses, I see nothing wrong with it.
Linkage fixed, so now it goes to the actual article in the DeMoines Register, instead off to my Wordpress page. Thanks, Jennifer, for the heads up!
patti
If I paid for a fence, I’d hope to be able to do with it what I please.
However, anything that’s painted with spray-paint is going to look like graffiti, No matter what message you’re trying to convey.
Pagan or no, any symbol that’s hastily spray-painted onto the outside of a fence is going to look like graffiti to passers-by.
I love runes, but if I were the passer-by I’d still think, “Dumb kids, painting stuff that they don’t know what is.”
Ryan
He should be able to display his pagan symbols, as he sees fit. If this is the way for him to show his devotion to the goddess/god who are we to tell him different. I know, as for myself. I would have carved smaller symbols. In all corners of the fence ie.. N. S. E. W. To protect my family completely.
I agree with Kendall. If he can compromise then we can see if he is being accused of graffiti. Wooden symbols would be good. I do think they should be able to display it outside, so hopefully he can make it more pleasing to the eye. We have here at my home, gargoyles, moons, and pictures diplayed on our fence. They are made of stone. Or whatever they call those concrete looking stone statues. I even have a stone pumpkin with a witches hat and has a smilling face, sitting out front. So it doesn’t seem to bother anyone. Lets hope something good comes out of this.
Seems to me, everyone is against every religion except for Christianity. Christianity was never supposed to be a pushy religion. Jesus was never pushy. Never forced his religion on people, only showed by example and asked his followers to do the same.
Where does that leave the rest of us? We’ve got Christians at our throat every day! And why? I haven’t quite figured it out.
I do believe that everyone has a right to express and worship their religion, but I do not believe it should be at the discomfort of others.I do understand that other religion push their beliefs onto us, but we do not have to reciprocate. There is a way to express yourself without making our religion look crazy and reinforce what some people think about us. Protecting the wall and in a better looking fashion or putting the runes on the inside of the fence might be more appropriate. I think this holds true for all religions, if you want to express yourself and it’s not my belief then you shouldn’t subject me to it.
i think he should do as he pleases, i work at a store where we sell all sorts of things, walking stones and fence decorations with religous things printed on them but not once have i seen a pagan theme on any of them, so why cant you draw your own? Across the street i have a guy who painted his number for his garbage buissness (garbage pick up call 555-555) on his fence with neon green paint not once did anyone complain. I painted flowers and a triquetra on my window and the neighboors complained that it was inapropriate.
I believe that if he would make them a little more creative instead of plain black and glaring like they are, there would be no issue whatsoever with it.
People are afraid of they don’t understand. They see a pentacle/pentagram and automatically think “Devil” worshipping. Although I will say that the number of people that actually know what the symbols are, is increasing. Now I will say that he could have gone about it in a better way ie: making them symbols look a little nicer, carving them nto the wood maybe. But it’ shis fence and it’s not hurting anyone. Maybe the reason he used both Runes and Pentacle because he is an Ecclectic. I’ve used Runes as a magical alphabet and I’m not Heathen. My husband is though. The pentacle is a symbol of protection and I think it is pretty universal in the Pagan world. I just feel that he shouldn’t be judged on what symbols he decided to use, he felt they were the right symbols to use on his property so that gives them power.
I agree with Mija. I’d take a jigsaw and a nice clean outline or several and de-graffiti the fence. They don’t have to be huge and they can be artfully arranged. Then I’d paint, repair or spruce up the fence in general and wait for them to dream up another complaint.
I have adjacent neighbors who are always looking in my yard and making smart comments because I have planted a nice flower garden, and spend a lot of time gardening and enjoying my backyard and the birds at my feeders. They even call me a “pagan” like it’s an insult. I have considered putting up a privacy fence with Wicca symbols on it (facing their side) to really give them something to talk about. Now I know to do it tastefully to avoid having it called “graffiti”
If he is using those symbols for protection, they would be just as effective on the inside of the fence and he would not have to put up with the city.
yes, INSIDE the fence would be a solution! But what a stupid fuss~ let’s get more involved with global warming, feeding the homeless or ending the war instead of fighting about what someone paints on their own fence! JEEZE! The government priorities on all levels are screwed up!
I think it is disgusting.
It is there own fence, it’s nothing bad so they should be left alone.
I agree, if it were a cross I would assume there would be no problem.
More discrimination!
Anna, be careful when you complain about intolerance while misrepresenting others. “Jesus was never pushy”? You haven’t read the whole Bible–or you ignored parts you didn’t like. “Christianity was never supposed to be a pushy religion”? Where does that come from? Seems to me, the ACLU is for every religion except Christianity. The irony is, Ryle & Rachel claim they painted the symbols to protect their home, but the symbols have brought their home under attack. But what do you expect when you take a known satanic symbol (representing the goat’s head pentacle), turn it 36 degrees, and think people should instantly recognize it as a “good” pentacle? Given the artistic talent displayed, I surmise the MacPeebles were drunk one night and decided to do something to piss off their neighbors. Now they’re trying to save face.
Hmmmmmmmm, this is very interesting. I also have mixed feelings about this story since I am one to show my religious signs on my property but not on a fence. I have other ways such as fairies on top of my front retaining wall; a pentagram with a star and moon going down my chimney along with another pentagram over my front porch and over my rear entrance. I have brooms hanging on the sides of each door with bells hanging from the doors; I have bunches of spices also near my doorways and huge stones at each entrance way to filter out negativity. There are many other ways to show your belief in your religion and to protect yourself and your property other than painting it somewhat out loud on a fence. Although, if they were to become a HP and HPS they could always have a sign for a Tempel or Center for their belief.
At times, we always can’t just think of ourselves, we need to think of other’s and respect them too. Plus like stated before you need to think of the neighborhood itself and it’s reputation and appraisals.
Others with different beliefs do in in smaller ways with smaller statues such as the statue of Mary in a doorway or a small cross or bible with a statement in it; but it’s not so large that it stands out somewhat in a gaudy way.
I’m not trying to disrespect the people in this article in any way, I just think there are other ways in protecting their property.
Im sure others have said this, and I havnt been able to see a picture on it, but I personally wouldnt have a problem with it as long as it looks nice and doesnt look trashy. If it is just thrown up there with no sense of style or color or placement, then it should be removed and redone to look better. I am a home owner and I can relate to the resale idea, and the graffiti idea. So….yeah, thats it.
Just saw the pics, and yes, they look horrible. Try some color and making it look prettier. Not like it is now, thrown up looking like some 14 year old rebel did it.
i think that the city should leave the man alone if they can put IN GOD WE TRUST on coins and paper money then we should be able to put up our belief im pagan and i will put up what i want take me to jail for it that just show people are scared of what they dont know
I’m pissed of with people graffiting on my fence plz could you tell me how to get it off